"Wrestling is a very one dimensional aspect of MMA, and is generally used for takedowns only. " Incorrect...
I would be inclined to say wrestling is the best base for MMA.
Wrestlers usually control the tempo of any given match.
Wrestlers decide when the fight hits the ground or if it stay standing.
Ultimately though, chose something you enjoy doing, or else you'll drop out.
Wrestling
BJJ/Sub Grappling
I am with the majority of the crowd and i will say NO GI submission grappling with a strong base in wrestling.
The strikers have very good point about it being easier to bring it all together if you are a striker first. but most of the pros who are strikers only use takedown defenses. At least that is sometimes what I have observed. Not all kickboxers are like this the top level ones like silva and liddel are very proficent in grappling and use grappling all the time.
ttt
Haven't people noticed that it's the cross-trained grapplers that whip the most ass?
Look at the likes of what Rampage, Terrell, Lutter, Fedor etc etc have achieved, going on to finishing most of their fights by knockouts.
Not only that, how often do you see the striker subbing someone? The last I can think of is like what, Spratt v Lite? It doesn't happen as often as the Grappler KO'ing someone.
gymnastics.
when i say gymnastics, i mean as a youth so you can build up strength and flexibility... then bjj or wrestling
rza: I was so about to say that at the start of the thread too. Good call.
IMO most MMA fighters have pretty mediocre striking skills, as many of the tops guys in the sport came out of grappling backgrounds; to me this is a weakness that should be exploited. Fighters who can bang AND defend takedowns well AND show some skills on the ground tend to do very well...Mirko...Chuck...etc. The gap between grappling and striking skills is narrowing but there is still a long way to go until there something even approaching parity for the vast majority of MMA fighters.
You need all aspects of the game, of course, but being a guy who is a danger on his feet and is difficult to take down is a pretty good place to be.
It seems a lot of grapplers downplay the importance of striking, which is unfortunate--I honestly think that is the key that will drive this sport into the big time. Good striking makes for exiting matches.
Iceberg: With the small gloves, it's just too risky to engage in long standup exchanges. How many times have grapplers tried to play the game for the fan's sake, and then been beaten because of it? Then consequently never invited back again.
Frankly, I watch every friday night boxing event, the pay-per-views and every K-1 televised, including MAX... I get my fill there. I LOVE striking in MMA if it works, but not if it only works for artifical reasons (standups, rounds etc).
Winning and losing still plays a massive part in who fight organizations are going to pick for future events.
Gymnastics? I'm 19. Isn't it a little too late to be getting into gymnastics? Are there routines out there that can help me get the strength of a gymnast? (bodyweight strength and flexibility right?)
"BJJ's skillset is ten times more vast on the ground than wrestling's"
....and submission wrestling's skillset is ten times more vast on the ground than BJJ.
It is like comparing boxing and Muay Thai. Boxing is a very effective, but limited, striking style (jiujitsu is a very effective, but limited, grappling style), but muay thai is a more diverse more complete striking style (as submission wrestling is with grappling).
submission wrestling and jiujitsu are not the same thing.
Nowadays, jiujitsu stylists have had to go way beyond the boundaries of their style to keep up with submission folk and wrestlers (and wrestlers have had to go beyond their limited style as well). It has gone so far that people that start in jiujitsu are now looking nothing like jiujitsu stylists at all. Seems like everyone now are shootfighters. I am glad that is the case. It is good to see people getting out of their style and becoming freestylists.
I saw a Royler Gracie book with 75% wrestling and catch as catch can moves in it and it said "Brazilian Jiujitsu" on the cover!
This is a very interesting thread. Thanks for all of the great responses.
"BJJ's skillset is ten times more vast on the ground than wrestling's"
Dies laughing
If you are truly serious and want to go to the UFC, contact Master Fred Ettish, think he is out of Michigan, one bad mo-fo. I think his technique relies heavily on blinding your opponent with your own blood, that takes balls.
Being equal at stand up and grappling isn't going to get you any wins at the top. You have to be better at one or the other, unless you're a freak of nature. Most people can figure out where their strengths are within the first year of training. RE: the point of the original post, it's probably easier for a striker to learn the ground game. It used to be the other way around, but I've seen so many new MMA guys learn how to sprawl against people like Lindland that it just seems like it's a question of athleticism. Basic grappling is very natural if you're good at it and striking is fucking hell to learn regardless of who you are.
Heres my gameplan:
Did judo for 5 years on and off...But i was too young to get any good (trained from 9-14) I picked up some skills but hardly anything good. Im not knocking judo, I just had a crappy club and I was too young to train seriously/smartly.
I started Submission Grappling/No-Gi BJJ just before I turned 16. Been training for just over a year and a half now if you include the 4 months i was forced to take off last summer. I'm unranked, but at bluebelt level...I just recently started doing gi 1x per week partly so I can get graded and partly because I've recently gotten really interested in it.
A couple months ago myself and a few others from my gym started SERIOUSLY working our wrestling. We have a few pretty skilled wrestlers in our gym...maybe not as skilled as the wrestling you would find at team quest or any other wrestling based team, but regardless we are rapidly improving our wrestling skills.
We are doing submission grappling oriented wrestling exclusively, so we are not learning bad habits that straight wrestling would teach such as: leaving yourself open to guillotines, flying triangles, giving up your back, etc.
I'm going to continue this type of training, focusing about 30% on standup grappling and the rest on the ground...while getting boxing pointers here and there from people who strike in my gym.
Im gonna keep that up until I reach maybe purple belt level with my jiujitsu/subwrestling. (Target time: 1-2 years from now...I know its quite an ambitious goal)
After that I am going add boxing 1-2x per week to my training schedule, do that for however long it takes to get confident in my hands, and then start including kicks, knees, elbows and the rest of that muay thai jazz.
I would start doing striking now but I just dont have the time and I feel right now my first priority is to build on my grappling base. My training schedule is 4x per week 3-5 hours per session. I think its going to be stepped up to 5 or maybe even 6 sessions per week starting next week.
My main passion is submission wrestling and BJJ, but I would like to be fully rounded for the street and most likely some MMA competition.
Anyway this is the path Ive decided to take and I hope it leads to Grappling and MMA sucess in the future.