I've done a little research on the California laws concerning how developed a fetus has to be to be considered a viable life and whether or not causing a death while committing a felony means you'll be charged with murder. Granted I'm no lawyer, but this is the info I've gathered.
First and foremost, Rampage hasn't been charged yet. It's all going to depend on what the medical evidence says caused the miscarraige.
In California, the 38 year-old fetal homicide law says, "murder to include the ''unlawful killing'' of a fetus beyond seven or eight weeks development." She was 16 weeks pregnant. If found to be the cause of her miscarriage, it will be considered killing a human being.
In California, "If a person kills while committing a felony that is inherently dangerous to human life other than arson, burglary, etc. the person will be found guilty of second degree murder. For example, if the defendant furnishes heroin to someone who uses it and dies of an overdose, the defendant probably will be charged with murder in the second degree. Under the law it is assumed that if the defendant had the specific intention to furnish the heroin, he or she had malice enough to be charged with murder."
"California lists some 20 different special circumstances that can boost a murder from second to first degree, including murder carried out for financial gain; murder committed with an explosive; MURDER COMMITTED TO AVOID OR PREVENT A LAWFUL ARREST; MURDER TO PERFECT OR ATTEMPT AN ESCAPE FROM LAWFUL CUSTODY; murder of a law enforcement officer, prosecutor, judge, or elected, appointed, or former government official; murder committed in an especially heinous, atrocious, or cruel fashion where the killer lay in wait for, or hid from, the victim; murder where the victim was tortured by the killer; murder where the killer used poison; or murder where the killing occurred during the commission of, aid of, or flight from certain felonies. These felonies include rape, robbery, kidnapping, burglary, arson, train wrecking, sodomy, the performance of a lewd or lascivious act upon a child under age 14, and oral copulation with a child under age 14 (Cal. Penal Code § 190.2 [West 1996])."
Ok, so if the accident is found to be the cause of the miscarriage, Rampage could face first-degree murder charges, second-degree murder charges, and at the very least vehicular manslaughter.
Regarding vehicular manslaughter, "Vehicular manslaughter may be charged when a driver causes an accident (either by violating a traffic law or by exercising negligence or "gross negligence") and the accident causes the death of another person."
"If the vehicular manslaughter does not involve gross negligence, the prosecutor may charge it as a misdemeanor or a felony, depending on the circumstances. Vehicular manslaughter with gross negligence can only be charged as a felony."
That gets us to what is gross negligence? "Gross negligence is defined as driving without caution and without concern for the safety of others. It means a high level of recklessness. But a charge of "vehicular manslaughter with gross negligence" may not be based merely upon driving under the influence of alcohol. Other facts must be present, for example speeding, racing, running traffic lights, and/or ignoring the advice of others not to drive."
What are the penalties for vehicular manslaughter in Cali? "If the offense is a misdemeanor, up to one year in the county jail. If felony DUI vehicular manslaughter (but without gross negligence) is found, the sentence can be up to four years in state prison. If felony DUI vehicular manslaughter with gross negligence is found, the court can impose up to 10 years state prison. Substantial drivers license suspensions may also be imposed."
If charged with second degree murder, "Sentencing for murder varies from state to state, and according to degrees in the states that have them. Second-degree murder usually is punished with more than 20 years in prison. A person convicted of second-degree murder in Minnesota, for example, may be sentenced to prison for not more than 40 years. Some states, such as California, allow a sentence up to life in prison for second-degree murder."
***Info derived from legal-dictionary.com and an article titled "California Law on Killing Fetus Is Strengthened" by Dean E. Murphy published April 6, 2004.
I didn't wish anything and I clearly stated I did a "little" research. And it's "too" much time online.
touches and secrets - I will grant you your first wish, you are not a lawyer. alot of research for nothing. damn i thought i spent to much time online
A lot of research for nothing? Oh that's right I forgot that you don't have to read to learn anything!
The law is vague on that IRONMAN. When the fetus homicide law was strengthened in 2004, California Supreme Court Justice Justice Joyce L. Kennard said the legislation that added fetuses as victims of murder was unclear about the required ''mental state'' of the killer.
They did make it clear that a "killer" doesn't have to have known his victim was pregnant to be charged.
I honestly think whether or not he struck her vehicle first and the felony evasion and leaving the scene came after the fact will be important. If he hit her vehicle while fleeing the scene and fleeing police, the way he's dealt with, of course if the medical evidence shows he is in fact responsible for the miscarriage, could be severe.
The vague comment was made by the dessenting judge. And just to mention it, Rampage's actions the days before, leading up to the incident can be gathered as well as those following the release. We know where they are. And there's a big difference in being insane and whether your choices to stay up and fast altered your judgement. One is not your doing and the other is a result of your decisions. Huge difference.
wow, just wow. I cant believe all that.....Rampage is in for a world of shit. I hope the best for everyone in that situation.
And lol and touches and secrets....poor guy is getting beat up on this thread, rightfully so. Go Crooklyn!
IRONMAN, I think the authorities, as they should and everyone else should, are waiting on the medical findings of the miscarriage. It could simply be a 38 year old female having a miscarriage. That's not uncommon. It could only land in civil court. There's no telling, but if it goes bad for Rampage, it could be really bad for him.
Here is my understanding, and I am no criminal lawyer at all, and have done zero research. Jeff Cain probably knows more than I at this point.
In terms of drugs. My understanding is, if you have a reaction that was unanticipated, and not reasonable for you to anticipate, that is a defense in terms of mental capacity/sanity, and the like. It acts to remove the requisite levels of "mens rea" needed to make an act criminal. The idea being, if you were rendered "out of your mind" through no fault of your own, you should not be punished criminally.
That said, if you ingest recreational drugs, of your own volition, and do the same acts and lose mental capacity, the intent of the act in taking the mind altering substances is "transferred" to the "mens rea" required to establish the criminal act.
In the case of ingesting drugs with known side effects, that were within your knowledge, again, this would be like committing an act for which you knew of a likely outcome, and then attempting to argue you did not intent that likely outcome. Not a strong defense.
Now, if his defense is something of a mental breakdown, and loss of mental capacity, that was not caused by his own fault (such as taking illicit drugs), he may have a complete defense to the criminal charges.
In terms of Crook's post, the civil case is likely to be filed regardless of what occurs criminally, assuming evidence as to the cause of the miscarriage implicates the accident caused by Rampage. It need not be one or the other. Think OJ Simpson. He was tried criminally and civilly. He likely would have faced civil suit regardless of the outcome in the criminal matter--the difference being, in the event OJ had been found criminally guilty, the civil case would have been a slam dunk because the burden of proof is far greater in the criminal matter.
Macedawgg, you probably have a better understanding of it than I do. I did not research on the drug side of it because there wasn't any found on him, or in him to my understanding.
in terms of drugs, yes. In fact, I think the officer's report indicates (IIRC), that Rampage appeared completely sober, and calm at the time of being taken into custody. I imagine they probably did take blood as soon as they got him to the station, but not sure.
As well, he was apparently deemed "unfit" for custody at the station, and transferred to a hospital. These facts, coupled with what others have described as erratic behavior, lends support that Rampage in fact had lost mental capacity, and was not acting coherently or rationally at all, through no fault of his own.
Now, I'm not sure if when they talked about there being no drugs on him meant illegal drugs or not. He very well could have been on a perscription drug that we don't know about due to his medical records being private.
It really seems like them going civil and just taking his money is the only chance he has. He's fucked in a bad way here.
ogopogo - Rampage will not be held criminally liable. He will not be charged with manslaughter. However, he will be held civilly liable. It may not just be Rampage but Zuffa and Toyo as well.
This was an involuntary psychotic episode and Rampage's exposure is for civil damages for those he terrorized. But since Zuffa employs him, the chain of negligence may go all the way up to Zuffa. Could Zuffa have reasonalby known that Rampage is unstable? If so, Zuffa could be held liable for millions of dollars.
And now that they know with no uncertainty, Rampage as a fighter is done. He's a walking liability and no one will employ him.
This is mostly uninformed bullshit.
It's not involuntary if you willfully stay up for 4 days straight and then go driving.
There is 0% chance Zuffa gets involved because that's not how the legal system works. If I go murder you for being an idiot on this message board do they hold my employer liable? No, moron.
Stop posting shit you have no clue about.
touches and secrets - I will grant you your first wish, you are not a lawyer. alot of research for nothing. damn i thought i spent to much time online
It makes for discussion if nothing else. This is a discussion board.
DannyOcean - It really seems like them going civil and just taking his money is the only chance he has. He's fucked in a bad way here.
He's going to get beaten up in both civil and criminal courts.
JeffCain - I've done a little research on the California laws concerning how developed a fetus has to be to be considered a viable life and whether or not causing a death while committing a felony means you'll be charged with murder. Granted I'm no lawyer, but this is the info I've gathered.
First and foremost, Rampage hasn't been charged yet. It's all going to depend on what the medical evidence says caused the miscarraige.
In California, the 38 year-old fetal homicide law says, "murder to include the ''unlawful killing'' of a fetus beyond seven or eight weeks development." She was 16 weeks pregnant. If found to be the cause of her miscarriage, it will be considered killing a human being.
In California, "If a person kills while committing a felony that is inherently dangerous to human life other than arson, burglary, etc. the person will be found guilty of second degree murder. For example, if the defendant furnishes heroin to someone who uses it and dies of an overdose, the defendant probably will be charged with murder in the second degree. Under the law it is assumed that if the defendant had the specific intention to furnish the heroin, he or she had malice enough to be charged with murder."
"California lists some 20 different special circumstances that can boost a murder from second to first degree, including murder carried out for financial gain; murder committed with an explosive; MURDER COMMITTED TO AVOID OR PREVENT A LAWFUL ARREST; MURDER TO PERFECT OR ATTEMPT AN ESCAPE FROM LAWFUL CUSTODY; murder of a law enforcement officer, prosecutor, judge, or elected, appointed, or former government official; murder committed in an especially heinous, atrocious, or cruel fashion where the killer lay in wait for, or hid from, the victim; murder where the victim was tortured by the killer; murder where the killer used poison; or murder where the killing occurred during the commission of, aid of, or flight from certain felonies. These felonies include rape, robbery, kidnapping, burglary, arson, train wrecking, sodomy, the performance of a lewd or lascivious act upon a child under age 14, and oral copulation with a child under age 14 (Cal. Penal Code § 190.2 [West 1996])."
Ok, so if the accident is found to be the cause of the miscarriage, Rampage could face first-degree murder charges, second-degree murder charges, and at the very least vehicular manslaughter.
Regarding vehicular manslaughter, "Vehicular manslaughter may be charged when a driver causes an accident (either by violating a traffic law or by exercising negligence or "gross negligence") and the accident causes the death of another person."
"If the vehicular manslaughter does not involve gross negligence, the prosecutor may charge it as a misdemeanor or a felony, depending on the circumstances. Vehicular manslaughter with gross negligence can only be charged as a felony."
That gets us to what is gross negligence? "Gross negligence is defined as driving without caution and without concern for the safety of others. It means a high level of recklessness. But a charge of "vehicular manslaughter with gross negligence" may not be based merely upon driving under the influence of alcohol. Other facts must be present, for example speeding, racing, running traffic lights, and/or ignoring the advice of others not to drive."
What are the penalties for vehicular manslaughter in Cali? "If the offense is a misdemeanor, up to one year in the county jail. If felony DUI vehicular manslaughter (but without gross negligence) is found, the sentence can be up to four years in state prison. If felony DUI vehicular manslaughter with gross negligence is found, the court can impose up to 10 years state prison. Substantial drivers license suspensions may also be imposed."
If charged with second degree murder, "Sentencing for murder varies from state to state, and according to degrees in the states that have them. Second-degree murder usually is punished with more than 20 years in prison. A person convicted of second-degree murder in Minnesota, for example, may be sentenced to prison for not more than 40 years. Some states, such as California, allow a sentence up to life in prison for second-degree murder."
***Info derived from legal-dictionary.com and an article titled "California Law on Killing Fetus Is Strengthened" by Dean E. Murphy published April 6, 2004.
I don't quite understand why you felt to place
"MURDER COMMITTED TO AVOID OR PREVENT A LAWFUL ARREST; MURDER TO PERFECT OR ATTEMPT AN ESCAPE FROM LAWFUL CUSTODY;"
in capslock.
The first part applies but the 2nd half does not meet the requirements. Mainly because the major element in a "escaping lawful custody" case, is the person in question HAS to be in custody in order to be charged with it. But it will be interesting for the rest.
donttazemebro -I agree with donttazemebro. Also, doing a little internet research is definitely better for a discussion than simply offering up blind guesses that have no basis in fact.touches and secrets - I will grant you your first wish, you are not a lawyer. alot of research for nothing. damn i thought i spent to much time online
It makes for discussion if nothing else. This is a discussion board.
WidespreadPanic - Civil liability. Any decent lawyer can get him off on the sideswipe as a proximal cause of the miscarriage - impossible to prove, though impossible to disprove. This means he'll be sued for enormous sums and prob settle out of court for 10 mil.
2 cents.
"Proximate," in my humblest opinion.
You're wrong anyway.
I overlooked the second part being in all caps. I agree, it does not apply to this situation, only the first part does.
It will all depend on what the prosecution decides to charge him with. The Judge has nothing to do with it.