posture alignment therapy

Underground
21

Pete Egoscue is a genius, however, he did not want others to know exactly what he knows. He holds out information, even from his own therapists.

First I want to say that I really lose a lot of respect for people who are involved in health care who do this.  Disgusting.

After reading what you wrote I am interested in pursing this.  My back has been getting worse over the years meaning that it is causeing me pain more frequently.  Some days I am almost immobilised where as other days I am fine.

Now for this Egoscue method.  I checked out some of his stuff, and read some of the exercises he recommended for back pain. They happen to be the same ones reccommended to me by an MD.  The exercises have helped my back but they are no miracle.  So, I am not going to argue as I am interested but still sceptical because he seems to have a cult like following which is common in alternative medicine, and leads to overblown testimonials.  That makes me wary.

I would like to e-mail you Mike to see if you could help me with my back.  Please don't take my skepticism as argumentative.  I will try what you have to offer as nothing else has helped that much.  Plus if you have some before and after pics on your posture you could share via e-mail that would be great.

The only reason I am am given you a try is because you are reputable, and I don't have much money to spend trying different kinds of things.

Thank you.

22

Cherrypicker,

Actually, you bring up a very good question.

"Pain Free" is a good book for the average person who knows nothing about posture therapy to get some background info. It is excellent MARKETING. It outsells his other books by a longshot. It outsells "Health Through Motion" even though the general idea of the content is the same. The testimonials/stories in the book are people who were personally work on by Pete and if you are fortunate enough to work with him, you will get better (he doesn't really work on people anymore, except celebrities and very wealthy people).

With posture therapy, there truly is no such thing as specific exercises for back pain or exercises for neck pain, etc..., etc.... However, Pete does divide his book into those body part sections. The reason he did that is because that is now most people think. If you look at the exercises he shows for the various sections, it's the same exercises over and over. With the exercises that he is showing that book, I see what he is generally trying to do, however, I do not see any logic to the sequencing or how he could possibly classify those sequences into body part sections.

One quick side note is that I have yet to meet anyone who has done the exercises in Pete's various books perfectly correct. So many people say, "Yeah, I've seen those exercises before", but when I watch them do it, they are missing a lot of details. Of course, the book is also not super descriptive in talking about all the small details. Those small details make a very big difference.

Since everyone problems are caused by different issue, Pain Free is like the shotgun approach. I can tell that it is the shotgun approach by the exercise he chose to show in the book. As I mentioned before, many people are so dysfunctional that giving them any sort of functional posture exercises can be of some help. And that's kind of what that book does. There is no way that the recommended exercises in Pain Free can completely fix most people because everyone's problems are different. In fact, for certain people's conditions, there are certain exercises in Pain Free that shouldn't be done.

With posture therapy, we do not categorize exercises like how most people think. We do not do "for back pain we do these exercises" or "If you see an excessive anterior tilt of the pelvis, do these exercises". If you do that, you are not looking at the body as a whole.

By the way, I have found that there are 3 instances in which this therapy does not work:

  1. You do not do your prescribed program every day.

  2. You do not do all the exercises or in the exact sequences given to you.

  3. You do not do the exercises technically perfect.

I have had a couple people e-mail in regards to wanting me to help and work on them. I will tell you guys something that you probably won't hear from any else in the health field...If I put together a program for you (and you don't make the 3 common mistakes mentioned above) and you don't feel or see any difference, I will give you your money back. In my opinion, that is only right because if you don't feel any difference, then I didn't do jack shit for you.

23

Great stuff ttt for later.

24

Posture therapy, yoga, and kettlebells are a great combo.

The interesting thing is how I am now so in tuned with my own body and will notice things that most people do not even realize exists on them. For example, I was doing yoga class and we did a series of poses. After doing that series of poses, I felt it fired up the rotation I once had in my hips. So I layed down and did a particular exercise on my own. When I stood up and I could see and feel that the rotation was gone.

25

When I was 19, I found out I had a bulging disc in my low back. The neurosurgeon said that the disc was not ruptured nor was it hitting either of the main nerves that go down my leg so I didn't need surgery. So he sent me to physical therapy. In physical therapy, they basically do the standard thing for back problems- work your abs and stretch your hamstrings. This did nothing to ease any of my pain nor did it make me more functional.

Let me explain why "strengthening your abs" can actually not be productive. Let's say you have an posterior tilt in your pelvis (as if your tailbone is tucked under), flat low back, excessive rounding of the upper back, and rounded shoulders. In this particular situation, your ab muscles are already in a position where they are tight and contracted because of how "curved and hunched over" you are. So in fact, doing more ab work is making your situation worse because you are making your abs contract and tighten even more.

Now the answer is not "strengthen your low back" either. In the particular situation I mentioned aboved, your low back muscles are in a state of constant flexion. This means they are constantly working to hold you up against the force of gravity when you are standing because you are hunched over so much. If you try to strengthen your low back muscles, you are now working muscles that are already working too hard in the first place. Imagine having your arm bent at a 90 degree angle all day and then doing bicep curls at night. That's definitely not going to make you feel any better.

26

I'm going to try to get the pics of myself before the posture therapy and then show you all the difference between those pics and now. However, in the meantime, I want to show you a before and after pic of a guy I worked on the other day.

The guy described his main pain as: Left shoulder muscle cramps. Often numb and neck tightness, stiffness and pain of left side when do head rotation left.

The guy had numerous postural problems, but one of the most noticable things was that his hips swayed forward which caused his torse to go back yet his head was forward. This resulted in a big "hump" in his lower cervical/upper thorasic area which not only caused a lot of pain and problems, but make that area very unstable.

I took a pic after I ran him through the program I gave him for the first time. Once again, this is from doing his program only once. He obviously has a long way to go, but this guy felt immediate relief in his neck. He had more mobility and he felt his neck was a lot looser.

The pic on the left is his "before" pic and the one of the right is his "after" pic. By the way this guy is in his 60's, so it shows you that it is never too late to make changes to your body and that you can turn back the clock a bit. If you are interested in seeing it, drop me an e-mail and I will e-mail it to you as a Word file.

27

When people think about posture, many people only think about "standing up straight" and don't realize that it also has to do with the lower body. A post on the BJJ forum talked about knee problems. I had numerous knee problems ranging for getting it bent sideways in judo, to pain when running, to unknown swelling and loss of range of motion. Because of the posture therapy, my knees are back to 100%.

Many people think that just resting by not training or strengthening the muscles in their legs will solve their problems. Unfortunately it does not and when you have certain dysfunctions, attempting to strengthen a body part only causes the problem to get worse. People need to realize what is causing their knee problems before they can attempt to fix it.

There are numerous reasons (besides a traumatic accident) why knee pains can occur....

  1. Improper alignment of the knee joint. Many times people will have their femur turned in one direction and their tibia in another direction. Being bow legged and knock-kneed is also improper alignment.

  2. Hyperextension or hyperflexion of the knee. Either position places excessive stress on the knee joint. Hyperextension is the worse of the two.

  3. Improper weight distribution. Many people have dysfunctions that cause one leg to carry more weight than the other. One leg now gets overworked and over stressed.

  4. Dysfunctions that lead to improper gait pattern. Weight, pressure, and shock is being being absorbed in an improper manner by the joints when walking and running.

There are many more reasons why knee problems, pain, and slower rate of healing can occur, but I just wanted to list a few common ones. A person can have one of these problems or a combination of these problems. In the instances I mentioned above, strengthening your leg before fixing these issues will only made your problems worse. In addition, no amount of supplements are going to fix those problems either.

Also remember that nothing in your body happens in isolation. If there is something wrong in your knee, it will cause a problem somewhere else in your body or it was a result of some other problem in your body.

28

As always, thanks!

I must say, to this uneducated eye, what you are describing sounds similar to what Scott Sonnon describes/demonstrates...

for example:

http://www.circularstrengthmag.com/23/sonnon.html

Is it similar? 

 

29

Heck, no it is not similar at all. Plus, multi-plane exercises like the ones he is doing should not be done until a person has higher level of functionality. for example, the guy I mentioned above which I have the sample pics of. Those exercises would mess him up even worse.

In addition, just from look at the pic of Scott on the bottom of that page, I can see several obvious dysfunctions in his posture.

30

Bolo,
Would "Geoff" be Geoff Gluckman at www.musclebalancefunction.com?

                       Thanks, Kirk
31

Yes, that is him and his program.

32

Double post

33

Bolo,

Man...go to bed!!! LOL

             Thanks, Kirk
34

Mike,

 Thanks for the info - I believe that I'll check out his CD/Manual.

 I appreciate you sharing your experience.

                  take care,  Kirk
35

KDRay,

The CD/Manual would be a minimal benefit unless you planned on taking his course from him in person. What I mean by this is that there is no way you can read through that thing and then understand how to truly fix other people or yourself.

36

Mike,
I appreciate the adivice-that might be possible (not anytime soon,but it does sound very intriguing).

                              Take care,  Kirk
37

I wanted to mention that people often find tremendous relief from pain right from the start, however, keep in mind that 1 menu of exercises won't fix all your problems. This stuff is good, but it is not magic. Changing your body is a process and there are many factors that you must consider....

A problem that has been ingrain in a person's body for 50 years is doing to take a lot longer to change than a problem that has only existed for 2 years.

You must also think about all that you are doing during the time you are not doing your exercises. If you are given a 20 minute menu, what are you doing the rest of the 23 hours adn 40 minutes of the day? Sometimes you are messing yourself up so much that doing a 20 minute menu once a day may not be enough.

In this method of therapy, we have certain priorities when it comes to posture problems that need to be fixed. There are certain problems that are extremely destructive on the body and those things need to be taken care above all else. So it is not possible to fix everything at once.

In addition, we cannot predict what part of your body will change sooner than other parts. For example, let's say that you have counter-rotation in your body- your torso is twisted in one direction and your hips are twisted in the opposite direction. It may happened that your torso rotation comes out first, but the pelvic rotation decreased much less. In a second menu, we would then address the pelvic rotation more.

A very interesting thing is that many times you will have certain dysfunctions that are so strong that it covers up other dysfunctions. Then when when one thing is fixed, it reveals something that was not seen before. For example, I originally thought I had left side forward rotation in my body. However, I actually had counter rotation. What happened was that my upper body is disproportionally strong in comparison to my lower body. So my upper body rotation "overpowered" my lower body rotation, so it appeared as if my left hip and torso were rotated forward. Once my torso rotation was removed, my hips were "released" by my upper body and then I suddenly saw rotation in my hips in the other direction.

Personally, I believe I have gotten faster results than the average person. Why? First, I never miss a single day when it comes to doing my exercises. Second, especially, in the beginning, there were times I was doing my menu 2 times a day. There were even occasional days that I did it 3 times in one day. Third, I have had 8 menus. I did not want to just relieve pain, I want make my body as functional as possible and be as far away from pain as possible.

38

I am not too familiar with all the different programs out there. However, I can tell you that joint mobility, flexibility, or strength is not the way to measure functionality.

For example, a man may have a 15 degree anterior tilt in his pelvis and excessive curve in his low back. Because of that tremendous dysfunction, that guy may have a what appears to be very good flexibility and strength when it comes to bridging and back bending.

I have seen yoga instructors with numerous dysfunctions yet their joints seem to have flexibility far beyond what most people are capable of.

Remember that everyone's bodies are different. Therefore, there cannot be one standard program that works for everyone. That is why when I give a menu of exercises to someone, it is specifically for that individual and will differ from other individuals. For example, in yoga class, I often hear the instructor say to "tuck your tailbone in" to all the students when they are standing. What I have noticed is that many female yoga instructors tend to have a strong anterior pelvic tilt. So "tucking" their tailbone in makes their pelvis more neutral when they stand. However, what about the people taking the class who have a posterior tilt? Having them "tuck" their tailbone is just making their condition worse.

39

hi Bolo, thanks

I didn't want to start a pissing contest between you and Scott though, so I hope no one takes what you posted the wrong way...I was just curious if the two of you were doing a similar thing.

four years ago when wrestling I hurt my left groin (adductor, the inside one?)...at anyrate, if I pull my right knee to my left pec, there is no problem (while lying on my back). I can also pull my right knee towards my right pec and to the right of my right pec.

Now, with my left knee, I can pull it towards my left pec and to the left of that, but not towards my right pec.

Is that the type of injury that posture alignment therapy targets?

Thanks

40

One thing you have to remember with posture therapy is that we don't chase symptoms. This is something that is very different from other modalities. I talked about back problems and knee problems earlier for 2 reason. First, back problems are very common so I wanted to discuss something that many people can relate to. I also talked about knee problems because most people don't think posture issues have to do with things like knees and feet.

The only reasons why would need to know a clients symptoms is to make sure I don't put them in a position or exercise that may aggrevate the situation.

But, anyway, I do think this therapy can benefit your situation.