The rumours of rampant drug use seem to be true. Fighters shrinking in size, not able to sustain as much damage and fighting at a much slower pace. Is anyone else suprised to see how much these substances were able to help pride fighters? I can't believe how many Filho and Wandy have shrunk. I also noticed that the legendary chin and resilence of many fighters has been greatly degraded since they moved to UFC. Perhaps this lends credence to the arguement that these drugs should be banned.
It certainly makes it a stronger argument. I'm sure it is the case for some guys and not for others.
Some guys needed that edge for strength, killer instinct, and training recovery and without their performances have dropped off. Other guys were probably clean and are clean now. And their is probably a third group of guys who were juicing and still are.
There are a lot of factor that could be contributing to some fighters dropping off. The new up and coming fighters are a new breed and are weeding out some of the older guys because they have had more well rounded training for a longer period of time.
Some guys, while not that old, have been in countless battles and they are showing the signs of being worn out.
Some guys may be crumbling under the pressure of high profile fights where the world seems to be watching. While more people may have watched Pride fights than currently are watching the UFC fights it has become a much more mainstream thing and losing now garners much more unwanted attention. The cage vs. the ring may be affecting some guys as well.
It's not really relevant, is it? If steroids were not prohibited in the organization they competed in and they were not illegal in the countries they lived and trained in, what's the problem? And why would they NOT use them under those circumstances? The "it's cheating" argument goes out the window.
Shogun, Ninja, Filho,Wand and Nog. I also wonder about their training methods. Having watched Brazilian train, in my experience, they do not believe in periodization. 100 percent training all the time. Wand's snorkel training, which is an attempt mimic hypoxia training (i.e. training at altitude) doesn't work. There is no science to back up this type of training.
Love Big Nog, but how do explain this juggernaut taking a beating from King Fedor and still kept on fighting only to lose to Mir in the fashion that he lost? Guy is a monster on the ground and doesn't get Mir to the ground. Slow and sluggish, I dare say lethargic.
Wand I think is the more obvious of the Pride lot. In Pride, wand was a beast. In the UFC, not so much. Take the juice out of the man.... You think that Wand would at least get on the HGH since he lives in Las Vegas and trains with Randy.
My worthless 10 cents; they train like monsters but recover like ducks. Without the secret sauce to help them recover (yes anabolics are used for recovery....) they don't look as tough anymore.
BJ > DORKUS - It's not really relevant, is it? If steroids were not prohibited in the organization they competed in and they were not illegal in the countries they lived and trained in, what's the problem? And why would they NOT use them under those circumstances? The "it's cheating" argument goes out the window.
Good point. But what we see now is that Pride was an inferior product. Pride's top dogs couldn't compete without the juice. What does this mean about King Fedor?
correct me if im wrong, but i didnt see the OP say anything about cheating. Rather i think the discussion is about whether the losses accrued by former pride "monsters" gives greater merit to the rumor that they are juicers...
"Love Big Nog, but how do explain this juggernaut taking a beating from King Fedor and still kept on fighting only to lose to Mir in the fashion that he lost?"
Well he seemed to be in lousy shape even before the fight started. If I had wagered money on Nogueira before the weigh-ins I'd have been pretty pissed.
Wait so you're saying Minotauro is dirty but Brock Lesnar is above suspicion? Fedor's won two fights in the States and was subject to drug tests both times.
Are you really that noob or have you been banned before?
Steroids give you a better chin?
"Good point. But what we see now is that Pride was an inferior product. Pride's top dogs couldn't compete without the juice. What does this mean about King Fedor?"
So stupid. If guys in the UFC, even former champs juice, then why would the Pride guys all of a sudden stop?
The UFC like all major sports is filled with pharma's.
Some of you need to stop comparing a guy today to the same guy 5 years ago, even more.
Times change. Fighters change.
That's my question. ^^^^^^
"What does this mean about King Fedor?"
It means he's still king?
"Some of you need to stop comparing a guy today to the same guy 5 years ago, even more"
Seriously, it's like they think MMA is a video game where dudes are in the exact same condition every time they fight.
NameCaller - Wait so you're saying Minotauro is dirty but Brock Lesnar is above suspicion? Fedor's won two fights in the States and was subject to drug tests both times.
Are you really that noob or have you been banned before?
No, Did I ever say Fedors name?
Ensanity - Steroids give you a better chin?
Accoding to Mark Kerr they do... I think he said something to akin that he could be hit by a Mack Truck and not even feel it.
supersonic - "Good point. But what we see now is that Pride was an inferior product. Pride's top dogs couldn't compete without the juice. What does this mean about King Fedor?"
So stupid. If guys in the UFC, even former champs juice, then why would the Pride guys all of a sudden stop?
The UFC like all major sports is filled with pharma's.
Some of you need to stop comparing a guy today to the same guy 5 years ago, even more.
Times change. Fighters change.
Oh come on.... Look at how much people have shrunk. Its not like Wandy or Paulo are tipping 40 yet.
Guess Chuck, Hughes, Pulver, Randy are all coming off the juice too then.
Wanderlei has not shrunk whatsoever, he was never big, go watch his fight with Tito or the fight against Hunt where he weighed 199.
This thread is pointless,stupid, redundant.
Oh and zeerus, Mark kerr said he could get hit that hard because he was hopped up on opiate pain killers.
Man this thread is dumb.
Well I think it probably is a combination of a few things.
Possibly steroids. But if we are talking about Nog and Wand, I think a lot of it has to do with opponants and the frequency of fighting.
I absolutely refuse to believe that the beatings Nog took from considerably larger and stronger opponants has not affected him.
Fighting Sapp, Schilt, Fedor x 2 (3 if you count the NC), Barnett x 2, Cro Cop, Sylvia.
Plus look at the frequency that the guy fought.
In 2002, 2004, and 2006, he fought 5 times each year. Fighting at that level every 2 months or so cannot be good long term.
Then who have Wanderlei, who goes way back to bareknuckle.
Factor in he probably averaged 4 fights a year, while getting the shit kicked out of him in trainign with Chute Boxe.
The same reasons we love these guys may be the very reason we wont get to see them doing well into their late 30's and beyond liek we do with Randy or Chuck. Both those guys fought whoever was infront of them, but at the same time, they fought maybe 2-3 times a year!
But yes, I dont think anyone should be so naive to believe that Pride was 100% drug free.
Zeerus -Ensanity - Steroids give you a better chin?
Accoding to Mark Kerr they do... I think he said something to akin that he could be hit by a Mack Truck and not even feel it.
Thank god we have the scientific brilliance of Mark Kerr to fall back on.