Well Snowden also mentions the tryout in his book. And he did a lot of research and interviewed a lot of people.
I don’t know for sure either way obviously, so it’s not a hill for me to die on in an argument.
Damn, motherfucker. I’m still waiting on the story about Ken’s fight with those pro-wrestlers.
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Didn’t he get jumped by the nasty boys and gotten beaten up by confronted them individually and they tucked?
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He would have torn their acls
No, he barged into their room and they beat the fuck out of him like he was asking for. I think he took a phone receiver to the dome a few times.
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I stand corrected. They are some big white boys, tough fight in a small motel room
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I’d pay to see a video of that fight
you’re not limited to one olympic appearance, angle winning in 96’ has jack fucking shit to do with how many Olympic trials he was at.
have you ever gotten anything correct in your entire life?
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then esplain
Back in the day Ken and The Nasty Boyz and some other pro wrestlers were in a bar.
The Nasty Boys were bothering a lady that Ken knew, Ken intervened. Basically told them if they didn’t stop he would make them.
Bouncers got involved.
The Nasty Boys went to their hotel room.
Ken was pissed and wouldn’t let it go, so he went to their room banging on the door.
IIRC when they didn’t answer he kicked the door in, saw Knobs laying on the bed and started yelling at him.
Saggs was hiding, and hit Shamrock in the back of the head with a heavy phone, knocking him out.
Then the 2 of them proceeded to beat on Shamrocks unconscious body, badly hurting him. Apperantly they were about to throw him unconscious over the railing of the second floor, when other pro wrestlers put a stop to it.
Shamrock had to be ambulanced to the hospital with life threatening injuries.
Years later, Ken was at an airport with Billy Gunn and a bunch of other pro wrestlers.
The Nasty Boys had been talking shit,saying if they saw Ken they would beat him again.
Well Ken heard about this and when he saw them at the counter he went after them.
Knobs literally ran away, and the wrestlers with Ken stopped him before he could get to Saggs.
So later Ken was waiting for them in the terminal, and Saggs came walking through and didn’t see Ken, so started talking more shit.
Ken jumped up and got to Saggs, and started throwing him around.
Ken was expecting a fight, but apparently Saggs just turned his back and yelled “don’t hit me, it’s a federal offense”.
Ken called him pathetic, and said something about let’s see you kick my ass now like you’ve been telling everyone you would.
Saggs didn’t answer, so Ken let him go.
This happened in front of Billy Gunn and a group of other pro wrestlers.
Ken said he hasn’t heard any more rumors of them talking shit since.
Says he feels vindicated since they basically ran away and backed down in front of everyone.
Ken said they lost face in front of the other wrestlers, and that’s a big deal.
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It wasn’t a fight.
Ken got blindsided by a phone and they put the boots to him while he was unconscious.
I posted about it below.
I just posted it.
Well, summerized it.
Ken had a few backstage tustles with pro wrestlers.
Apperantly The Big Show tried to put Ken in a bear hug at a party, and Ken ended up hewl hooking him, causing The Big Show to scream in pain.
I’ve heard other stories over the years, but would have to look them up to get the names and details right.
Not exactly…
As far as works…
We pretty much know what Ken’s works were in Pancrase.
There have been lengthy discussions even on this forum, and other than maybe 1 Suzuki fight, the consensus is pretty consistent among those in the know.
I can name a couple posters who can list them all in detail off the top of their heads, and that’s not limited to only Shamrock fights.
Basically, Ken never really lost in Pancrase. All of his losses were because he put the guy over.
All of his wins were legit, except 1 exhibition with Matt Hume. I have heard that they wanted Ken to put Bas Rutten over, but Ken refused. My memory is a little foggy on that one though.
Unfortunately this was part of the growing pains as Pancrase moved to full shoot.
Ken was the best Pancrase fighter of that era by far. Bas had a longer run there, but Ken beat him soundly twice, and those fights were very real.
As far as the other stuff later in his career…
I guess the main 2 everyone talks about are Franklin and Kimbo…
ken said he lost to the winner…Angle only won once Even in 1992 Ken was competing in MMA No way he wrestled Angle at Olympic trials U also have to be invited And u surely dont drink or eat the day prior to a weigh in Wrestlers weighin day oif not day before
-and Berry
Great story, thanks!
Props to Ken!
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Franklin and Limbo…
First off, I don’t know for sure one way or another.
I have my own opinion and observations,and I’ll get to that.
But the reality is,none of us really know except Ken and maybe a few others.
I always think it’s a little funny when people seem so certain one way or another.
This isn’t Japan, and paying someone off to throw a fight is risky business for promotions that are already making money.
I also don’t think it’s fair to use Pancrase against Ken in these discussions. That was a different time and a different culture, and big money MMA promotions weren’t growing on trees.
Even the idea of being a professional fighter with mixed rules was a pretty new concept at the time.
If we want to accuse Ken of throwing a fight against Franklin or whoever, that’s one discussion.
But I don’t think we should use a couple Pancrase fights from back in the day as reason to presume guilt or necessarily question Ken’s career as a whole.
Not saying you are… but others have.
Mark Coleman put Takada over, and for the most part people seem to treat it like the one-off that it was.
There are people who completely discount Pride because of a couple works early on, and I think that’s ridiculous.
I also just don’t think people understand the extent of Ken’s injuries and how severely they affected him for his entire comeback starting with Otsuka in Pride. He was already broken down after the WWF, and his injuries just kept getting worse. It’s the reason he started standup fighting more.
Franklin:
I definitely looks funny. But weird things happen in fights sometimes.
Watching that gif that everyone posts in slow motion – where Ken falls back before the punch lands – it does look funny.
My opinion is that Ken was about to go for a leg scissor (something he does well) and was already starting the motion when he saw the punch. He hesitated and got jammed up.
If he was throwing the fight – and willing to take hard shots to the face in doing so – why would he try to oversell one punch in a standup exchange??
Doesn’t make sense to me.
But I know people have picked it apart and will argue till the sun goes down.
Kimbo:
This was a hard one to swallow for a couple reasons.
Shamrock has no business losing to Kimbo Slice. All due respect to Kimbo (RIP), he was never on Ken’s level.
So it’s my opinion that if Ken was at a point in his career where he might lose to a guy like Kimbo – he shouldn’t be taking the fight.
Then when it looks like he’s about to win, and it didn’t happen – it made it that much harder to watch.
But again, I am of the unpopular opinion that it was real.
And I would almost rather know Ken took a dive, because I don’t want to believe that Kimbo actually beat him.
But the reality is, Ken should have retired long before that fight. The last part of his career was tough to watch.
He really should have been able to finish that choke. People think that’s the giveaway… But I’m not so sure.
Again, it comes down to people not understanding the extent of Ken’s physical limitations.
The guy has fused disks in his back (I don’t remember which ones), and a bad shoulder.
I think he was already getting muscle fatigue trying to get the choke, and the supporting arch strength to maintain that just wasn’t there. He should have switched his grip, but that either didn’t occur to him, or if it did his arms were already blown up.
In Ken’s physical condition, he needed a quick finish. He was no longer equipped to weather a storm or have a back and forth fight.
And even though Kimbo was no great MMA fighter, he certainly had the power in his fists to put people away given the opportunity.
Ken’s takedown was bad too. More evidence of his physical limitations. Some might point to that as evidence of a work – but looking at Kimbo during that time, he was slow and stiff as hell.
Maybe I’m wrong and Ken took a dive in both of these.
I tend to doubt it. And I can see how these weird things can occur within the context of a real fight, given Ken’s physical condition.
The only thing I know for sure, is that I don’t know for sure. LOL
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Been a while since I watched the Berry fight.
I think he just got caught by a big powerful guy.
My feeling is if Ken was good enough to win these fights, throwing them is just minimizing his drawing power and less money opportunities in the long run.
I think he was generally optimistic that he could find ways to win – and even desperate to win at some point.
And why does Ken always throw fights by using his face and head as a punching bag?
If he really was taking dives… Well fuck that.
An man with his neck injuries shouldn’t be getting his head bounced off the cage or the ground.