Prime Liddell v Hendo... Who wins and how?

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iCameiLostiRetiredDiaz -
Hocky Balboa -
Warriormmd -  Subbed for mean muggin picture Phone Post


 

Lol Chuck looks retarded, Hendo would smash him Phone Post
Seen the pic before, but what's the story behind it? Phone Post

According to UFC 3 (I strangely enough played this match last night) - Hendo by KO. Phone Post

Narly made a pretty good poll thread about this topic a while back.

This is a tough fight to call..

I consider Liddell's "prime" to be from about 2004 - 2006. This is when he was beating Couture and Tito. This is when I believe his confidence level, experience, and physical toughness, all combined to make him the best fighter he would ever be. He still had his chin, and his confidence was through the roof. He did have that loss to Rampage leading up to his best UFC run... but I just think Rampage would always be a bad matchup for Liddell. Not counting John Jones (yet), I personally rank Liddell as the 4th greatest LHW of all time. His style of fighting was perfect for his strengths, and a tough matchup for anybody.

Hendo's "prime" is a bit harder to pin down. He was always a threat to beat just about anybody on a given night.. but he never really had an extended run of dominance. That said, I do give him credit for fighting at the highest level of MMA throughout his entire career. Thats rare. He had a few off nights. But he never really fell off and stepped down a level in competition, over a 14 year career! But while Hendo's physical prime may be behind him at his age.. I do believe he is at his most "dangerous" right now. He is still as tough as ever, still has a solid chin, and is landing the H-Bomb more consistantly than ever. Hendo has himself said that the power has always been there, now he is just better at landing it.

So I would say this fantasy fight would happen between the Dan Henderson of the last year, VS. the Chuck Liddell of 2006.

I think it would be a war... and I'm giving a very slight edge to Hendo. However, if it went the distance, I believe Liddell would have the advantage.

For all of Hendo's wrestling ability, his style of fighting has not always showcased that as a dominant strength. This is, IMO, because Hendo just likes to mix it up and fight. He would rather risk getting taken down to throw bombs, than play it safe. He has been criticised for this, but the mentality behind it is also a reason people like him so much.

Chuck Liddell had great wrestling for MMA. It is the main factor that allowed him to stay on his feet and land the strikes that made him so dangerous. Liddell was famous for being very hard to takedown, and very hard to keep down.

For these reasons, I see this fight being mostly a standup battle. BUT... I do think Hendo would have an advantage in the clinch, especially against the cage. (I'm assuming ths is a UFC fight). The clinch is the one area where Hendo's wrestling has been solid for MMA. His strength and balance here are excellent, and with the power in his fists he is very dangerous off the break.

Liddell is one of the greatest counter punchers ever in MMA, and has a technical advantage over Hendo when it comes to striking. They both hit hard enough to KO anybody, and both have very solid chins.

The thing about Liddell is.. even as a dominant striker, he did tend to get hit. He would let guys gain momentum in striking exchanges, and "bait" them to chase him with punches. IMO, he was pretty much betting that he could take a few punches, but his opponent could not take his. Most of the time he was right. I have heard people call his punches "sloppy", and I think that is a gross oversimplification. Liddell was unorthadox, and even appeared a bit wild at times. But this really worked to his advantage because the angles could be hard to read, and his timing was excellent. He had an overhand right that was very difficult to defend, because he would throw it at just the right time. Obviously, he had the power to really make this work for him.

But taking a few punches against Dan Henderson would be a bad idea.. and could cost Liddell the fight. Hendo might be able to take Liddell's best punch.

Hendo's best chance would be to get in close and work the clinch. He might even get a takedown on the fence. While I don't see him keeping Liddell down for very long, the moment Liddell is getting to his feet would be a likley time for an H-Bomb. Liddell would often post a hand and use the fence as a brace to stand up. He was very focused on getting back to his feet, and would sacrafice a little defense to get there. Capitalizing on these types of openings has become one of Hendo's greatest strengths as a fighter.

Like I said.. I see it being a war. But I'm giving a slight edge to Hendo. I can really see him landing somthing solid, probably in the third round. It could either be an H-Bomb off the break, or in transition when Liddell is standing up. Hendo only needs small openings to land big time punches. Even if Chuck doesn't go right out.. Hendo also has great killer instinct and would jump on a rocked Liddell to get the stoppage.

HOWEVER.. I also think if it goes the distance, Liddell gets the decision. Hendo's best oppertunities would come during the ugly moments in the fight. But for the rest of the time, I think Liddell lands more strikes, and just appeard to be the better ring general in the judges eyes.

Of course.. there is the possibility that Liddell is just too much for Hendo physically, and gets a one sided decision, or a late stoppage. But I would be betting on Hendo's toughness, and consider this scenerio to be less likley that the previous 2.

As always.. IMHO.

Daem And he has a killer left too.



Yes he does.. ask Renzo :)

Good posts!

onepunchJD - Narly made a pretty good poll thread about this topic a while back.

This is a tough fight to call..

I consider Liddell's "prime" to be from about 2004 - 2006. This is when he was beating Couture and Tito. This is when I believe his confidence level, experience, and physical toughness, all combined to make him the best fighter he would ever be. He still had his chin, and his confidence was through the roof. He did have that loss to Rampage leading up to his best UFC run... but I just think Rampage would always be a bad matchup for Liddell. Not counting John Jones (yet), I personally rank Liddell as the 4th greatest LHW of all time. His style of fighting was perfect for his strengths, and a tough matchup for anybody.

Hendo's "prime" is a bit harder to pin down. He was always a threat to beat just about anybody on a given night.. but he never really had an extended run of dominance. That said, I do give him credit for fighting at the highest level of MMA throughout his entire career. Thats rare. He had a few off nights. But he never really fell off and stepped down a level in competition, over a 14 year career! But while Hendo's physical prime may be behind him at his age.. I do believe he is at his most "dangerous" right now. He is still as tough as ever, still has a solid chin, and is landing the H-Bomb more consistantly than ever. Hendo has himself said that the power has always been there, now he is just better at landing it.

So I would say this fantasy fight would happen between the Dan Henderson of the last year, VS. the Chuck Liddell of 2006.

I think it would be a war... and I'm giving a very slight edge to Hendo. However, if it went the distance, I believe Liddell would have the advantage.

For all of Hendo's wrestling ability, his style of fighting has not always showcased that as a dominant strength. This is, IMO, because Hendo just likes to mix it up and fight. He would rather risk getting taken down to throw bombs, than play it safe. He has been criticised for this, but the mentality behind it is also a reason people like him so much.

Chuck Liddell had great wrestling for MMA. It is the main factor that allowed him to stay on his feet and land the strikes that made him so dangerous. Liddell was famous for being very hard to takedown, and very hard to keep down.

For these reasons, I see this fight being mostly a standup battle. BUT... I do think Hendo would have an advantage in the clinch, especially against the cage. (I'm assuming ths is a UFC fight). The clinch is the one area where Hendo's wrestling has been solid for MMA. His strength and balance here are excellent, and with the power in his fists he is very dangerous off the break.

Liddell is one of the greatest counter punchers ever in MMA, and has a technical advantage over Hendo when it comes to striking. They both hit hard enough to KO anybody, and both have very solid chins.

The thing about Liddell is.. even as a dominant striker, he did tend to get hit. He would let guys gain momentum in striking exchanges, and "bait" them to chase him with punches. IMO, he was pretty much betting that he could take a few punches, but his opponent could not take his. Most of the time he was right. I have heard people call his punches "sloppy", and I think that is a gross oversimplification. Liddell was unorthadox, and even appeared a bit wild at times. But this really worked to his advantage because the angles could be hard to read, and his timing was excellent. He had an overhand right that was very difficult to defend, because he would throw it at just the right time. Obviously, he had the power to really make this work for him.

But taking a few punches against Dan Henderson would be a bad idea.. and could cost Liddell the fight. Hendo might be able to take Liddell's best punch.

Hendo's best chance would be to get in close and work the clinch. He might even get a takedown on the fence. While I don't see him keeping Liddell down for very long, the moment Liddell is getting to his feet would be a likley time for an H-Bomb. Liddell would often post a hand and use the fence as a brace to stand up. He was very focused on getting back to his feet, and would sacrafice a little defense to get there. Capitalizing on these types of openings has become one of Hendo's greatest strengths as a fighter.

Like I said.. I see it being a war. But I'm giving a slight edge to Hendo. I can really see him landing somthing solid, probably in the third round. It could either be an H-Bomb off the break, or in transition when Liddell is standing up. Hendo only needs small openings to land big time punches. Even if Chuck doesn't go right out.. Hendo also has great killer instinct and would jump on a rocked Liddell to get the stoppage.

HOWEVER.. I also think if it goes the distance, Liddell gets the decision. Hendo's best oppertunities would come during the ugly moments in the fight. But for the rest of the time, I think Liddell lands more strikes, and just appeard to be the better ring general in the judges eyes.

Of course.. there is the possibility that Liddell is just too much for Hendo physically, and gets a one sided decision, or a late stoppage. But I would be betting on Hendo's toughness, and consider this scenerio to be less likley that the previous 2.

As always.. IMHO.
Didn't read Phone Post

 Damn.. that's one of those fights that should of just happened.  Love both of those guys and that would be an epic battle.

Kneeblock -

Good post, and correct.

I will add to it by saying this..

It's actually funny that Liddell gets criticized for "beating grapplers". With a few exceptions, NHB/MMA has been dominated by grapplers, and striking focused fighters have a hard time keeping grapplers off of them. The more a fighter commits to striking, the more TDD he sacrifices.

Liddell was able to KO very strong and dominant wrestling focused fighters like Randleman, Tito, and Couture.

I LOL every time somebody makes the comment about Liddell only outstriking grapplers!

1 - because like you said, It's really not accurate at all.

2 - because it's VERY impressive how Liddell was able to keep fights where he could use his striking to "finish" some VERY dominant grapplers. If anything.. Liddell should get complimented for this.

Sheesh.

In there prime Chuck by KO and Im a way bigger Hendo fan.

This is one of my Matchups i wish we could have seen i think Hendo would connect with a H-Bomb and TKO Chuck at 2:25 of Rd 3.

Pound for pound I think Hendo is better....but Chuck is bigger.

Firemansam - Hendo got beat by shields. <br><br>Never forget. <img src="/images/phone/apple.png" alt="Phone Post" border="0" style="vertical-align:middle;"/>



Very similar stylistic matchup lol fucking idiot

5 rounds of Chuck/Hendo would have been insane. I just dont tihnk Chuck would be able to put him away and eventually would end up getting caught himself

 Hendo by TKO or Dec

Chuck wasnt the best LHW or close to it. He went to Pride to see were he ranked among the LHWs there and didnt make it to far against Rampage. Then we saw him against Shogun which he was a favorite over and lost that battle as well.

Hendo on the other hand has gave beating to LHW, HWs and MW. Outstriked great strikers. striker better then Chuck.

Hendersons prime is now, he just beat Fedor and Shogun

Acidic -  Hendo by TKO or Dec

Chuck wasnt the best LHW or close to it. He went to Pride to see were he ranked among the LHWs there and didnt make it to far against Rampage. Then we saw him against Shogun which he was a favorite over and lost that battle as well.

Hendo on the other hand has gave beating to LHW, HWs and MW. Outstriked great strikers. striker better then Chuck.



At the time Chuck fought Rampage... What other Pride LHW's do you think would beat him?

Rampage beat Liddell, and Wandy beat Rampage.. BUT, Liddell stylistically matched up pretty well with Wand, (the top LHW of the time). Now, I'm not saying I was picking Liddell to beat Wandy back then. (At the time I would have picked Wand knowing Chuck was a threat). But Liddell's counter punching style matched up well against Wandy's aggressive style. Liddell was at his best when he was being chased.

The point is.. you make it sound like Liddell just couldn't hang with Pride LHWs. But Rampage was his only loss in Pride. Chuck was past his prime when Shogun beat him. The Wand fight happened a bit too late for both guys, and might as well have been a draw.

So even if we say that Liddell ranks below Shogun, Wand, and Rampage... thats only 3 LHWs. Prime Chuck would have been favored over any other LHW in the world at the time, including Dan Henderson.

IF you read my other post, I DID say the current version of Hendo could possibly finish prime Chuck in a very close war. So we do agree there.

But I do not agree with your reasoning that Chuck ""wasnt the best LHW or close to it"".

He was absolutly "close" to the best LHW in his prime, and should still be considered top 5 all time, in one of the most historically "stacked" divisions in MMA.

I also would say that Liddell is the "better" striker than Hendo.. although Hendo is equally dangerous. Hendo's power and killer instinct take him a long way. But if you take away the KO power of both fighters, Liddell would out work and out point Hendo in a striking competition.

Like I said, I don't disagree with your prediction. More the way it was presented.

IMHO

Hendo never showed ANY sign of being able to stop a PRIME Chuck until AFTER he got on TRT...and beating the current Shogun in a disputed WAR decision does NOT mean you can stop PRIME Chuck. Hendo beat Vanderlei AFTER Cro Cop ruined him and Vanderlei was known to be and was CLEARLY visibly sick when he fought Hendo...beating an older shriveled up 220lb Fedor after he's already lost so much in the ranking doesn't cut it either.


Hendo also lost to Ninja, Rogerio, and had his jaw broken by Carlos Newton in another war.


Hendo is NOT outwrestling PRIME Chuck...ZERO takedowns....ZERO control.

Hendo would be forced to stand w/ Chuck.


Problem being that PRIME Chuck hits harder than Hendo, has more reach, and is a better overall striker w/ an equal chin.

SKARHEAD - Hendo never showed ANY sign of being able to stop a PRIME Chuck until AFTER he got on TRT...and beating the current Shogun in a disputed WAR decision does NOT mean you can stop PRIME Chuck. Hendo beat Vanderlei AFTER Cro Cop ruined him and Vanderlei was known to be and was CLEARLY visibly sick when he fought Hendo...beating an older shriveled up 220lb Fedor after he's already lost so much in the ranking doesn't cut it either.


Hendo also lost to Ninja, Rogerio, and had his jaw broken by Carlos Newton in another war.


Hendo is NOT outwrestling PRIME Chuck...ZERO takedowns....ZERO control.

Hendo would be forced to stand w/ Chuck.


Problem being that PRIME Chuck hits harder than Hendo, has more reach, and is a better overall striker w/ an equal chin.
Pretty much.
 

Prime v Prime ?


Iceman would find a way to beat Hendo , would look like the Tito fight . Phone Post

Prime vs prime, Hendo by TKO.

91W209 -
Nexus_Rising - Considering Couture stopped him and Liddell's run and career in general is grossly overrated due to the fact he didn't fight a dangerous striker in years I'm pretty sure Hendo would have taken him, easily.

Zuffa tried to hype him as some sort of big bad ass kicking machine yet he never did beat any of those elite strikers until the UFC capitalized on a faded Wanderlei Silva.

Funny how when Rashad, Rampage, Jardine, and Shogun came along the wins stopped. The only people he could beat up on was grapplers like Ortiz and Sobral and cans like White and Horn.
Horn is a can? Phone Post
When they fought the second time he was close , pride just had all the talent . Phone Post