progression of bjj?

Lately I've been thinking about how different bjj was in the early days of development to what it is now. I've got a few questions.

How different would a bjj class look in the, 60's, 70's, 80's and now? would it have been more geared to street fighting back in the 60's,70's and 80's. Would it have punch defense from the guard in it. Does todays bjj just have tournament emphasis only. Did they practice alot of standut jj like in the Renzo and Royler book? Just wondering if a class back then would look identical to a class today?

so they had hair guilotines in the 70's?

ttt

It is funny how people call it "brazilian" jiujitsu, by that logic, Americans have taken jiujitsu to a new level by adding wrestling and a stronger submission game, but no one calls it "American" jiujitsu.

The reality is that it was Maeda who developed "brazilian" jiujitsu in the three years that he traveled before going to Brazil. Jiujitsu is not "brazilian" or even "American". Regardless of who does it well.

I saw a brazilian guy on Pro Bull Riding, he was very very good at it, but he wasn't doing "brazilian" bull riding.

Cheesy.

You must also keep in mind that "Japanese" jiujitsu in the early 1900's was nothing like the "Japanese" jiujitsu you see these days.

Well, I think that jiujitsu comes from Chinese wrestling styles, but it doesn't matter. The point is that there is no such thing as "brazilian" jiujitsu, even though they are good at jiujitsu. Nothing new is under the sun. There have been times in history when people were far superior to us today at grappling and submissions. We aren't doing anything new.

"It is funny how people call it "brazilian" jiujitsu, by that logic, Americans have taken jiujitsu to a new level by adding wrestling and a stronger submission game, but no one calls it "American" jiujitsu."

  • YOU ONLY CAN BE PLAYING.....I CAN'T BELIEVE THAT YOU WOULD BE TO MUCH ASSHOLE LIKE THAT. HOW MANY WORLD CHAMPION AMERICA MADE IN THE LAST WORLD CHAMPIONCHIP?

"The reality is that it was Maeda who developed "brazilian" jiujitsu in the three years that he traveled before going to Brazil. Jiujitsu is not "brazilian" or even "American". Regardless of who does it well."

  • NOW I AM 100% CERTAINTY THAT YOU ARE IN TRICK WAY....MAN MASTER MAEDA DEVELOPED THE HIS JAPONESE JU-JITSU.....BRAZILIAN JIU JITSU WAS CREATED BY 3 BRILLIANT MEN: CARLOS, HELIO And CARLSON GRACIE.....AND WAS IMPROVED By the CREATIVITY And The AMAZING TALENT Of The BRAZILIAN PEOPLE.....

OSU.....

"Jiu-Jitsu, which means gentle art..." - LOOK OUT! Martial arts historian in the house!

Actually, i remember reading something interesting about the cycles that sports take and specifically about judo. The writer was talking about how certain moves/techniques become more popular at times and thus the defence to it gets better aswell.

Then some guy comes along and popularizes something else, either new or old that hasnt really been brought to the forefront in a while. That goes succesfully for a while and then everyone is looking out for that move so it becomes somewhat stale because the defense to it is steller.

Certain althletes will do certain things better than others and new things evolve but I also believe in cycles aswell...

BJJ (in MMA) has already gone thru a cycle after the birth of modern MMA as the guy said, the wrestling aspect of the grappling has been looked at and cross trained with wrestling.

I believe in sport BJJ in Brazil, many people looking to improve takedowns train with top judo guys and Im sure if judo wanna improve their ground will do vice versa.

For a while submissions and the guard seemed docile, then the BTT came back with full force and a newly revitalized submission attack.

Take the Sperry sub on Vovchanchin. Sperry is Sperry and his BJJ is obviously legendary but Im sure Darrel Gholar's coaching helped him in getting Vovchanchin down where he progressed to the choke from top position.

Nogueira made people fear the guard again....

MusashiBo is correct.

It's really quite simple. Brailian JJ is the Brazilian adaptation of Japanese Jiu-Jitsu.

The Gracies took all the elements that most suited the ground game, put them togethor and named it BJJ.

Is Judo JUST JJ because Maeda decided to take all the throws and make Judo? No, it's judo.

Everything else is just semantics.

  • ONLY TO YOU UNDERSTAND.....I LEARNED THE SAME STYLE OF JU JITSU OF MASTER MAEDA ( IN OLD JUDÔ SCHOOL OF RIO DE JANEIRO )....... MASTER MAEDA TAUGHT TO GRACIE FAMILY AND OTHER JAPONESE GUYS TAUGHT ANOTHER GUYS IN RIO DE JANEIRO AND OTHER STATES IN BRAZIL......NOW I TRAINNING WITH MANY BTT GUYS....THE STYLE IS TO MUCH DIFERENT....The EVOLUTION Of the GAME Is EVIDENT....IT WAS ONLY POSSIBLE For The SHINING MIND OF CARLSON And the ARMY OF HIS GOOD FIGHTERS....The GAME Of the BJJ Is REALLY TOTAL DIFFERENT Of the JUDO And JAPANESE JU JITSU....

OSU....

Ahh...Mr. Benkei-San, you know "OSU" is usually used as a greeting not as a parting shot, right?

But, ya, I think people usually generalize all BJJ and dont take into respect the many different styles within aswell.

Like boxing, how many different styles/philosphies are there? But fundamentally they are the same.

Wasnt it Carlson that teaches the importance of top position (not sure if for just MMA or for sport bjj aswell)?

I do believe that the brazilians are the best in the world at jiujitsu.

But I also do believe that it is not "brazilian", I am happy that it has been developed well in brazil. Every country should have sports that they are good at.

"Americans have taken jiujitsu to a new level by adding wrestling and a stronger submission game, but no one calls it "American" jiujitsu."

 

I don't know if anyone was in Brazil this past month but the Americans got fucking tooled in the mundials

I dont have a problem with us calling BJJ, BJJ. Like we call judo, judo and sambo, sambo. Same thing to me.

But I think the problem with the johnny come lately bjj soldiers is that they think every thing was invented in brazil and the absolute superiority they think it has.

:)

Osu means patience, respect and appreciation. In order to develop a strong body and strong spirit it is necessary to undergo rigorous training.....

you have one good point........but like Taekwon-do.... Judo...... aiki-do ..... sambo..... BJJ is one evolution of old schools of JJJ......

OSU....

Also, Mario Sperry and crew are awesome, but not because of jiujitsu! It is because of the addition of wrestling, boxing, and submission wrestling to their base of jiujitsu.

What Mario Sperry does should not be called jiujitsu! It is much more than just jiujitsu.

Yes, Americans can't hang with the brazilians in Gi jiujitsu.

The point is: why not just call it jiujitsu?

good point.

kansetsuwaza: So you'd be cool calling Judo Jiu-Jitsu? And you know a TON of sports were created from other sports... In Aus we have Rugby Union and Rugby League, 2 quite close sports, but they have points of real differentiation enough so to name them differently.

"Mario Sperry and crew are awesome, but not because of jiujitsu! It is because of the addition of wrestling, boxing, and submission wrestling to their base of jiujitsu."

No. Sperry has been considered Ze Mario before training with Gholar etc. they're just one of the elite teams in Brazil... Just like Grabaka in Japan or MFS/Quest in America. IT's the quality of their Jiu-Jitsu that makes them champions.

Ju Jitsu / Jiu Jitsu is an evolving art. Look at how BJJ has been changing in the last 15 years.

I study both JJJ and BJJ and they are not the same, but they are not completely different either.

It's not so much the techniques that are different (although there is a tendency towards gi techs. in sport bjj), but the training that is different.

I think it deserves it's own name, but at the end of the day we are all doing martial arts which probably all came from Egypt or aliens.