I'll soon have to grapple and spar against opponents in our CSW (Combat Submission Wrestling) class, using the art I practice BJJ.
The only thing I can tell you is that I can wear a gi and they can't.
Scenario 1: Assuming no striking from the CSW what strategy would you recommend? CSW is specialist at takedowns and setups, lower body footlocks/kneebars.
Scenario 2: Assuming striking from my CSW opponent and no striking from me what would be the best strategy for me.
This is traditional BJJ with the gi vs No gi Submission fighter.
Any help appreciated. P.S. my own gut tells me the answer lies in the guard. I don't believe guard and passing guard is their speciality as they only spend 30% of their time on the ground.
1)DON'T wear a gi, it can only be used against you
2)Play your game, not there. If you're a good guard player, play guard. If you're better on top, play top. But play your own BJJ game.
"1)DON'T wear a gi, it can only be used against you"
ck with mayhem ,im sure that what he thought
Remember these guys are master of takedowns. I can't afford to try to takedown these guys because they might put me in a bad position if I miss.
I'm pure SPORT bjj which is just gi and ground. I was thinking guard, guard, guard. Can they solve the guard?
I do think I should remove the gi as there's only a couple of chokes I can go for using it like ezekiel etc.
I'm not worried about them using it against me as they are CSW and don't attack with the gi.
More ideas please!
If your opponents are real good at lower body subs, then if you decide to play gaurd you must constantly be on the alert of foot and leg position, it will mainly depend on your experience level, butterfly grd might be the safest grd for you.
Butterfly guard is a good idea against no strikes CSW. But what am I going to do from there? Turn him over to mount = counter submission on my legs. Take his back = giving opponent plethora of ankle locks chances. And staying in butterfly against strikes will end up getting my head smashed in.
Remember they can hit!
This is style vs style CSW vs sport BJJ.
What did Royce do against takada and shamrock? He locked the guard and went for chokes with his gi. Thats how he tried to get them.
Keep the suggestions coming guys. Thanks
Grappler2010: Just curious... where do you train?
"Scenario 2: Assuming striking from my CSW opponent and no striking from me what would be the best strategy for me."
Get medical insurance.
Maybe don't worry so much?
I had occassion to rassle a 'full csw instructor' as an OK blue belt, no gi and I did OK
Just play a sensible game particularly with respect to leg lock defence but at the end of the day they are just trying to submit you just as you need to do to them.
The laws of physics do NOT change just because they might know a few tricks with leg locks- if they arent well trained at jits your positional dominance (assuming you are) will be superior and thats what matters
why wouldn't you be able to strike too?
so this CSW guy can strike?
soooooo.... what excatly stops you from using strikes too?
"This is traditional BJJ with the gi"
Since this is about traditional BJJ then I assume that you know that elbows, punches, kicks etc. are all part of traditional BJJ curriculum.
Anyway you are obviously trolling but I'll bite it anyway since the answere is easy. I have grappled with catch wrestlers, shooto figthers and all kinds of CSW practisioners. Basically they are all the same. What they all rely on is basic wrestling combined with high level conditioning.
They dont have that much technique and basically spaz around very agressively going full speed relying trying to force basic techniques with strenght. Not excatly easy opponents at all due to all that spazzing but then again if you can hanle them being so rough it is not excatly hard either.
Use tight guard and just keep breaking the guys balance as he tries to spazz and power his way. He'll get tired in no time. Use cross arm drag to take his back then. after that since he is obviously an asshole going full vale tudo on you using strikes etc. at least according yo your own description then just let me taste his own medicie and make him realise that superior position is the key and elbow the back of his neck/head till he taps from that superior position.
Oviously you are just trolling but whatever there you have your answer.
it sounds like you are too worried about every aspect of the game to go through with this. just use your game and if you lose take notes and go back to the drawing board. at some point you are going to have to accept your game for what it is, trust your techniques, and accept the outcomes.
BJJ at the school i go to is pure sport BJJ, theres no strikes let alone "no gi" grappling. Its just rolling with the gis like you see in any sport bjj competitive match.
Hitting is not part of the curriculum although a teacher may discuss the concepts at higher levels though little rolling is done with it. Its all theory. Now I know a lot of bjj schools aren't this way and have the vale tudo aspect just as well trained as the sport gi grappling by mine doesn't.
I want to clarify that I was not trolling in any way; i apologize if this was misunderstood.
The feedback has been good, on this topic -- informative responses.
You need a new manager to negotiate the rules for you. I have no problem with gi vs no gi, but if they can strike and you can't that is just stupid.
I think the best idea is to use pure brazilian jiu jitsu i.e. Concentrate
on positional dominance,once you have dominance try to open up your
opponents defence by using headbutts and elbow strikes.When he opens
up his defence to block or parry your strikes take the submission he
makes available to you.
Remember-All your Jiu Jitsu training although in the 'sport' arena has
trained you to continually work for a better position.You do not need
training to be taught how to use your head and elbows from the dominant
position-that is instinctive-just make sure you do not lose position while
Hope this helps.
This is what i would do if a CSW student started striking me ;-)
You are obviously just trolling but ok lets play your game little bit more.
"BJJ at the school i go to is pure sport BJJ, theres no strikes let alone "no gi" grappling."
So what? Get the back just like you have been taught and then pound his neck or back of his head with your elbows. You really do not need any training to be able to hit something as static as your opponent who you have backmount on with your elbows.
"Hitting is not part of the curriculum although a teacher may discuss the concepts at higher levels"
So what? If he is allowed to strike then so are you.
"I want to clarify that I was not trolling in any way; i apologize if this was misunderstood."
"I'll soon have to grapple and spar against opponents in our CSW (Combat Submission Wrestling) class, using the art I practice BJJ.
The only thing I can tell you is that I can wear a gi and they can't.
Now first of all why do you HAVE TO spar against him?
Ok you CAN wear a gi but why the heck would you HAVE TO wear a gi?`
Why excatly is he not allowed to wear a gi?
Your trolling is so obvious.
You raise some excellent points. staying head to head prevents a lot of the ankle locks, royce did this vs shamrock 1& 2.
taking the back of a sambo/shooto/CSW guy may be a bad idea-- they had 2 dozen leg locks they can crank out at any time. Assuming I won't be allowed to elbow smash one of these guys from the back into oblivion, their plethora of footlocks can quickly mount into a world of trouble for a man whose BJJ classes do not allow footlocks.
As for being asked why I'd like to spar against them, the answer is when I go outside my "own little world" of BJJ there's a lot to face in terms of challenges. Its not enough that I'd like to beat the guys in class, there's the guys on the street who may attack , theres the other MA stylists (judo players, wrestlers, kickboxers, karate, kungfu, krav maga stylists, etc) who may challenge me. The more stylist I spar the more EXPERIENCE i get. Why wouldn't anyone want to grow beyond their own little world?
Any style that is supposed to be a combative MA better prepare me for such realities. Otherwise it means I have to look outside of it for help.
Its not so much that I can't learn how to protect myself from punches. A simple kukuk tape on the guard from 10 years ago can teach me that.
It moreso going up against 1 year experienced CSW/MMA stylists that know how to takedown, legs lock, kneebar, and strike from guard all with setups in a fast paced learning environment.
I would have to worry about strikes mixed with submissions when on the bottom. Thats not going to be dealt with in one year of sport bjj with the gi.
For someone who apparently trains sport BJJ you seem to know a lot about CSW and their "crazy" leglocks.
I wouldn't be too scared of leg locks when you have someones back. If they play with your legs then they will be unconscious very quickly.
"taking the back of a sambo/shooto/CSW guy may be a bad idea-- they had 2 dozen leg locks they can crank out at any time."
Is is pretty obvious that
- You are just trolling
- You have never even trained BJJ
- Both of the above