Captain Howdy,
I've been in the same situation as you; Lots of no-gi submissions experience (not greco/folkstyle/freestyle wrestling, though), and I and my senior students were able to hang with blues and the few purples we rolled with.
HOWEVER - after having trained in BJJ for a while, I realize that our success was not due to skill, but attibutes and athleticism. When we rolled "hard" and use a lot of strength and speed, we gave people a hard time, and possessed enough awareness, timing, and sensitivity to avoid submissions really well.
NOW, however, when I roll EFFICIENTLY, I am at a solid blue belt level in BJJ (and I AM a blue belt now) that realizes how much more I have to learn. There is so much more to SKILLED grappling than just conditioning, although good conditioning can be a substitute for skill at the lower (white, blue, and perhaps early purple) belt levels.
A specific example is a purple belt I met a little over a year ago. He came to my school, looking for a place to roll. At first, I didn't see that there was a whole lot of skill level difference between us (I had no bjj rank at that time). I never put him in any real danger, but neither did he put me in danger. He was actually kind of impressed that my guys did well against him, too. I didn't see much of him for a while, but rolled with him again recently. I am now trying to use technique over speed/strength, and he MOPS me. Sure - I could probably up the physical intensity and do a bit better, but I think that avoids the whole point of training - to develop TECHNIQUE.
One day, I will get my Black belt in BJJ - then I will add the athleticism back in, although the beauty is I won't NEED to unless up against another highly skilled grappler. I can already see a huge difference in energy expenditure against large, strong athletes when they come in my door. I used to wear them out then tap them, now I just tap them with good technique, much much faster than I used to. Takes less time and energy, and that makes me much happier. :)
Anyway, I do agree somewhat that white belts today have had more exposure - but there is a huge difference between "knowing" a technique in your mind, and EFFICIENTLY performing it on the mats. You might be a white belt who gives blues a hard time, but just means you are very effective as a white belt and probably a good athlete - doesn't mean you have the actual SKILL of a blue or purple.
I STRONGLY agree with Famine:"IMHO, the essential ingredient is a thorough mastery of fundamental skills. That comes from mat time -- pure and simple. All the rest -- competition wins, knowledge, etc. -- is just a product of your mastery of basic skills. You should also have a set of techniques that work consistently on the vast majority of lower belts that you encounter. Of course, blues almost ready for purple may give you trouble if you just got your purple. However, if you are defensively sound, they should not be able to tap you." I also STRONGLY agree with McDonalds:"the key to the purple belt is the ability to wrestle without using strength. let the technique do the work for you. it's hard to get at first, but usually when you wrestle someone with their purple, even if they are strong, you feel the technique working and don't feel like you are being muscled. there are some blue belts who are strong, tough, and outweigh you. the blue belts that become purples are those who don't rely on those attributes to win."I believe that these things are what purple belt is really all about.Adam LaClair
requirement number 4836 for purple belt - know how to spell "purpelbelt" :)
purple belts need to have that sick unpassable guard
blue belts should just be able to whoop on the white belts
ttt for a kickass thread! This is what its all about..
Rodney, could you contact me at fullblastjkd@muchomail.com I have some things I want to discuss with you about training. Thanks in advance! Oh, are you going to the seminar at the DFW gun club?
Bryan Smith
cool responses. i will say, the guys who don't make purple are those who always go back to their 100% moves when rolling and class and never try anything new just to win the sparring match. they just sit there and play defense.
it takes FOREVER to get good that way. 100% moves are for competition and a fight. try stuff in class without using strength, regardless of the outcome of the sparring match, and you will be well on your way to the purple belt. i've said this before, it doesn't matter the outcome of the sparring in class, your goal should be to pull of a move/sequence of moves rather than tapping your opponent. if you are working submissions, of course your goal is to tap the person, but if you are working sweeps, work sweeps and sweeps alone.
tappingout, seems we all share the general feelings about the mystique of the coveted purple belt. Sounds to me like you're a good student and ready for the next step. Good luck!
if you are 145 lbs. i wouldn't lose too much sleep for a 200+ lbs. white belt giving you "trouble". We all know how some white belts roll and it's like trying to wrestle a badger. I don't care if you win or lose, what matters is if you are using Jiu Jitsu in the process. If you've got sound basics, and good defenses that is what makes you ready for any promotion. The rest is just time on the mat, which it looks like you have. You may have to "grow into" your belt for a few months and fight like hell to survive, but it will only make you better. Good luck!!!
well said, Angelo.
Lots of good points on here.
Then again, I know lots of white belts out there that can give any blue belt hell, cuz they've been white belts for like 3 years.
I'm still a blue belt, and I've been training for about 6 years. I can easily hold my own with higher belts.
The problem w/ most BJJ classes is the lack of reps on moves. In wrestling, you practice the same moves over and over and over, you usually don't get the same reps in BJJ class, which is why many people just don't progress much. Also, you should try and apply the moves you drill in the 1st part of class WHILE YOU ROLL at the end of class. Don't go back to your bread and butter all the time, try and develop new things.
Great thread.
Tap,
I believe that Angelo has given you the correct answer, therefore, read what he wrote, and fully grasp what he is attempting to tell you.
Good Luck
up for later
I don't think of myself as having purple belt skills. I can beat or at least play even with almost every blue belt, except one or two, who are at the top of the food chain, but I can give them a work out and rarely tap them out.
I can beat all the white belts with my A game, but if I'm fooling around I've gotten caught, but very rarely.
I'm now starting to compete with the purples, but I get tapped out more than I like to. If I'm playing my A game, I can get a few taps against a purple and even a brown.
I need to open my game up more, to go for different submissions and different sweeps, more agressively pass the guard. I get lazy or worried and I'm good at locking guys up in my closed guard.
ttt