Putting up the hands for BJ (TUF)

Was just thinking about this, this morning and though we know have a bit of the benefit of hindsight in that were into episode 3, I was questioning those who put up their hands exclusively for BJ in the team picks.

Yeah, i know its over but just in reflection, this is what i was thinking.

First off, I completely understand why those did put up their hands for BJ. BJ Penn is BJ Penn. And it was just 'going for it,' in trying to be selected on his team. A once a chance lifetime perhaps to train with the Prodigy so why not 'go for it' right?

Well, no disrespect to BJ and to Tony DeSouza and the rest of BJ's camp but aside from BJ, nobody has really has a sustained level of success from's camp. Tony was good years ago but lost pretty badly in his recent comeback to Thiago Alves iirc. Charuto arguably beat Hughes and nearly beat Trigg but then faded.

And also, keep in mind that while BJ is easily the better BJJ coach of the 2 and perhaps the most rounded fighter in MMA, remember that athletic skill and coaching skill are 2 different things. BJ has the credibility right away of being who he is and doing what he can do but im not convinced yet that he is nearly as good as a coach as he is a fighter.

Jens on the other hand, hasnt done so well lately but from his interviews to commentating, it was clear that he is a very articulate and classy individual. SO that does not equal coaching ability either but remember too that he is a former UFC champ and has also been in the ring with the very best in the game as well as training with the best in the game and coming from perhaps the best camp in the game and also maybe having the best coach in the game.

Remember we all thought Tito's TV persona was what he is really like but discovered he was one helluva coach on his season. The show doesnt show that much of the actual technicalites of the training but it did show Tito's character as a coach, right?

Again, this is nothing to disrespect BJ as who wouldnt want to be coached by the legendary Prodigy if they had the chance, right? All im saying is that some might have underestimated Jens Pulver's overall MMA experience and actual coaching ability.

I guess only time will tell - though we would really be able to tell if they edited exclusively for training and not so much the frat house fighting :(

ttt 4 jens.

I put my hand up for Jens' team.

"Well, no disrespect to BJ and to Tony DeSouza and the rest of BJ's camp but aside from BJ, nobody has really has a sustained level of success from's camp."

And no one from his camp has had any success in a number of years now, yet everyone still claims that BJ is the #3 WW in the UFC. Its the crack I tells ya!

What does the success of BJ's teammates have to do with BJs WW ranking?

For arguements sake because BJs fights with Hughes and GSP were so close, there could be an arguement for him as the #3 WW (at the time pre Serra of course).

But thats really besides the point imho.

One on One training with BJ as a Partner U will only get better(iron sharpens Iron), as a coach I have to go with Jens, he is already on a great team with great knowledge of the game and for up and comers that is the best chioce...

Another way of looking at it too...

"team pulver won on the show"


in my opinion, it's not about the coaches, it's about the
fighters.....they're the ones in the ring at the end of each episode.
Yeah, it would be cool to come in and train with BJ or Jens for that
matter, but the coaches aren't the ones winning the fights. Just
because Jens' team won the first 2 has no reflection on Jens himself
other than being the NEW coach of 2 already established fighters for
their first wins on TUF.

^ not entirely, imo but you've got a point.

But my point is that as a TUF fighter, you have the opp to work with 2 great fighters just that the better fighter isnt necessarily gonna be the better coach.

"What does the success of BJ's teammates have to do with BJs WW ranking?"

I was just commenting on the fact that the myth that is BJ Penn is somewhat overblown (IMO). BJ is iconic to most people and its something I just can't understand ;)

Well, imo, he is still ONE of the best fighters in the sport but agree that he is overrated by some (ie. his jockriders are among the worst) and that he is lacking still in some key areas.

But he's still the Prodigy for a reason.

"...from his interviews to commentating, it was clear that he is a very articulate and classy individual."

You are apparently watching through Jens colored glasses.

When he was champ and BJ tore thru Din and Uno, Jens didnt hold anything back and pretend that BJ didnt just perform amazingly, even as his rival, when he was commentating on those fights.

If you're talking about the hype that Jens and BJ have been spewing for this season...

do i understand this correctly? if someone is past thier fighting prime then they are no longer a viable coach? hmmmm, interesting point of view, wrong, but interesting

I actually thought the same:

BJ - Probably a better fighter, has done some amazing things as an individual. However he's called the Prodigy for a reason. He isn't going to teach people how to have crazily flexible hips or natural sense of balance or how to get a BJJ BB in four years. That his camp doesn't produce many champions highlights his personal talents, as it isn't a system that is replicable.

Jens - Has lived in the Miletich system his entire professional career. Probably less naturally talented, but has achieved great things. He is intimately familiar with the MFS which has produced an unrivaled stream of high level performers maximizing what talents they have.

While BJ may have more laurels as an individual fighter, Jens brings a system that has shown repeated success in creating champions. That is what I'd want in a coach. Why choose the guy who can't produce champions of folk he trains with every day?

could bj's team have turned tim sylvia into a 2x ufc champion?

good thread b

Man this threads keeps on coming up over and over again..I guess this is your opinion and it must consume your day. Ok Whatever you say WAsa-B your right you win...are you done now..
btw as a Bjpenn ball licker....I love his site..They are showing a ridiculous amount of his training..

both fighters on BJ's team were incredibly out classed. what could BJ have advised them from the corner that would have changed the outcomes of either of those two fights?

lol, he had no way of deciphering who was worth picking because of what Jens did. If I were BJ, I simply would have told Dana that there's simply no way to select them today, I'll have to wait until tomorrow.