Don't know if this has been asked before but has anyone read Ned Beaumont's books on boxing for the street? Are they good/realistic?
I own both of them. The are good for beginners
and fun to read. Take a pass on the second one
though. I don't know a thing about Beaumont, but I
agree with most of what he says.
"Who's Beaumont?"
"An employee I had to let go..."
Is that his real name, do you think?
lol @ T0ki
i love QT and although JACKIE BROWN doesn't top the list (PULP FICTION does), it's a good movie.
no, they aren't any good. Save your money for something else.
dinofrang - what's up with the 2nd book? Is it just a rehash of the first one?
I own the first book "Boxing as a martial art", I enjoyed the read but really wanted to hear your opinions on it.
Thanks for your responses guys, are there any good books to get on boxing and streetfighting then? A lot of boxing books are geared on the basics, touching only a little on ring strategy. In fact I don't know of any books that discusses ring strategy and advanced footwork/training.
Unless - is that really all there is to boxing? That is, as soon as you work out the basics, it's all repetition, constant training, sparring to hone the reflexes and such? In wrestling or BJJ or Judo books, there are pages and pages of varying techniques, different approaches to different situations. Stuff I can read to open my mind to the different possibilities of approach during training and during live sparring and street encounters.
Boxing as a martial art - are there any good books out there that discusses strategies and tactics for an opponent who isn't a boxer in your same weight class?
For some of the best, no-holds-barred street-fighting info anywhere grab a copy of Grandpab's "Strictly Street Stuff." You can buy it at Scrapper's site:
http://www.trainforstrength.com/
"Ned Beaumont" is the name of a character from a novel by Dashiell Hammett (the guy who wrote The Maltese Falcon). I have no idea what this guy's real name is.
His first book is decent for what it is. He spends way too much time bashing traditional MA. A lot of what he says is true but he takes it so far he ends up looking stupid a lot of the time.
Nothing in his book would offer anything to anyone with any real boxing experience. You'd get a lot more reading the Dempsey threads on this site.
I don't know what it means to ask "is that all there is to boxing." If you're looking for technique after technique, there ain't that much to it, but what there is will usually save your ass IF the other guy isn't trained, IF he doesn't have a weapon, IF there aren't three of them, IF you've trained it well enough to be able to pull it off when the shit hits the fan, etc.
See how much work it takes to even come close to mastering the basics so that you can actually use it when it matters and I guarantee you won't be asking "Is this all there is to it?"
If a man is looking for a book or a school or a system to turn him into a street fighter then that man is an idiot and an asshole, because only idiots and assholes want to be streetfighters. That man will probably also end up dead, paralyzed or imprisoned because "street fights" usually involve ambushes, weapons, multiple assailants, and almost 100% illegal activity.
If a man's goal is truly to be able to "defend" himself when EVERYTHING else has failed (i.e., when he's failed to stay away from places where trouble starts like bars and clubs, when he's failed to spot a threat and avoid it, when he's failed to call the police, when he's failed to signal for help, when he's failed to run his ass off, etc etc) then I'd learn eye gouges, throat jabs, biting, head-butting, elbows, and stomps mainly from a "dirty" boxing delivery system and add in some Greco or BJJ for when it gets up close and personal. I'd learn it in a gym and practice it as for-real as possible without injury.
After my "street fight" was all over I'd use all that skill to kick my own ass for letting the other 10,000 steps in my self-protection plan fail so badly that I had to use any of it on another person.
Hi ConchabarFinn, I wasn't bagging boxing, far from it, I
would and do recommend boxing (amongst others) as a
great style to learn for any situation whether it be the ring, or
the street. I haven't had the chance to train under a boxing
coach for an extended period of time in boxing myself but I
do have mitts and bags at home which I use.
When I asked "is that all there is to boxing", again I did not
mean for it to come across as trolling. I was asking in
reference to an earlier question I posted in the boxing forum
in regards to boxing coaches (What makes a good boxing
coach?), go see that thread if you want, it's hanging around
somewhere. I was talking about the relative "ease" (again I
used this term very loosely) with which to teach/coach
boxing. Boxing coaches do not have to be at the top of their
game the way BJJ/wrestling/judo coaches are to be able to
coach boxers effectively and I was asking why is that. I mean,
you are certainly not going to stay with a BJJ instructor that
you can easily submit, are you. And yet there are great
boxing coaches out there who are not at their student's
physical skill level. Go see that thread before you respond to
these points, I discussed this in more detail there.
Also, I have no doubt that it'll take a LOT of hard work to
master the basics in boxing. But I was asking if that was all
due to continuous drilling, repetition and instilling muscle
memory and reflexes? Boxing has evolved over the past
century but not the way BJJ has evolved in the past 20 years
(various guards, new sweeps, new ways to pull off a
submission, new techniques etc). Sure, being good in BJJ
also comes down to mastering the basics but there is also a
hell of a lot varying techniques to experiment with. There are
a LOT of ways to counter an attack in BJJ, and there are
many ways to land a submission, and IMHO the BJJ game
can afford to be slower with control so you have time to think
and react in tandem with your reflexes.
The next point - books on streetfighting. As I was saying
above:
"different approaches to different situations. Stuff I can read to
open my mind to the different possibilities of approach during
training and during live sparring and street encounters.
Boxing as a martial art - are there any good books out there
that discusses strategies and tactics for an opponent who
isn't a boxer in your same weight class?"
It's not books specifically on streetfighting I'm after, I was
looking for books on boxing that would show applicability or
training methods that could apply boxing itself to other
situations like MMA, cross-training with other combative
styles, or the street. Most boxing books only show basic drills
and almost all only show you how to survive in the "boxing"
ring, with someone in your weight class. Ned Beaumont's
book was the first book I have ever read that showed boxing
in a different context to what I'm used to seeing and I really
wanted your opinions on his approach and also if there were
other books that deal with boxing techniques in a less
restrictive / ringsport context. I agree, there are a lot of
streetfighters out there who ARE idiots and assholes, I
wouldn't even go so far as to call them streetfighters. I have
never been in a streetfight in my life and if you ask those
around me, they'll tell you that I'm the last person who could
develop the kind of unintelligent aggression needed to start
that kind of bullshit on the street.
In saying that, thanks for your response ConchabarFinn. Is
"Ned Beaumont" really a fictional character/pseudonym? Or
are the names simply a coincidence?
PS. Hi kkm!! :o)
In my opinion the second book is what was left on
the cutting room floor after the first one was done. It
concentrates mostly on conditioning and offers
nothing groundbreaking in that regard. Frankly, I
think he had nothing more to say after the first
book but since it sold well, the publisher asked
him to crank out another one -- and he did.
Yes, Dempsey's book is much better than either of
Ned's books -- I thought that went without saying.
dinofrang - i'm new to the boxing book/dvd thing, I know Ned
Beaumont recommended some books at the end of his book
but I wanted to hear your opinions. Besides I have never ever
seen the Dempsey book .. is it still in print? Tell you what
though, I'm new to the boxing "scene" (not the training) and I
sincerely apologise but Ned's book was the first time I ever
heard of this guy Dempsey (I know who he is now).
I've only taken boxing/kickboxing classes in the past but
nobody talks about much during class, maybe a few words
about current boxers 'n stuff is all.
If you are interested in training, go to
rossboxing.com and look at the books he has to
offer. they are the state of the art when it comes to
boxing training. ross has taken just about
everything we know about exercise, diet, etc for
boxing and combined it into a really usefull book.
The Dempsey book is long out of print, but
sometmes entire chapters are posted here by a
really nice guy.
Nice post Gakami, and very articulate.
I clearly misunderstood the question you were asking about "all there is" to boxing.
As for the bit about "streetfighters," that was for general consumption, not aimed at you (hence I talked about "a man" who wants to be a streetfighter instead of saying "you"). I work with "street" kids and am always concerned about who might be reading threads like this besides people who have their head on straight.
To put any fighting system in its "street" context, check out Animal MacYoung. He even has a title called "Making Your Martial Art Street Ready," or something like that. His overall work gives as good a feel for what streetfighting is about as books could. He has a website that's a bit hard to navigate but gives good (free) info and contains zero bullshit. http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/index.html
Peyton Quinn wrote a book called "Real Fighting" which doesn't talk much about technique but goes in depth on "controlling the physiological response," i.e., being able to use your skills when your under adrenaline overload instead of just freezing up. This is the most underrated and overlooked part of being able to defend yourself, in my opinion. We've all seen plenty of highly trained martial artists completely freeze up or turn into John Wayne round-house punchers when the shit hits the fan. Quinn's book can help one understand, control and use the adrenaline spike to one's advantage.
All experts on military and civilian combatives (i.e., systems meant to be used only in desperate situations and intended to disable an attacker as quickly as possible) emphasize learning as FEW techniques as possible and learning them very, very well. Under extreme stress conditions, the natural human physiological response literally limits how many and how complex can be the techniques you would actually be able to use. FYI.
Obviously boxing is a great "core" delivery system and a lot (not all) of the "dirty" stuff that you need for the street can be delivered through boxing. Check out Mark Hatmaker's stuff to see what I mean. http://www.extremeselfprotection.com/
I forgot to answer your other question: "Ned Beaumont" is the name of the main character in Dashiell Hammett's novel, The Glass Key. He's the "hard-boiled" street detective type, like Sam Spade, Phillip Marlowe, Mike Hammer, etc.
Check out the "Saved Thrds" link right under the "Actions" bar on the left side of your screen. A lot of excerpts from the Dempsey book have been saved there.
I agree that boxing is the best form of martial art(although that's just my bias). But that book is one huge ego trip.
I wrote a review at http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0873649346/qid=1061568460/sr=8-2/ref=sr_8_2/102-0726957-4034553?v=glance&s=books but that only touches a few things. It's called "Overhyped, padded compilation of other people's work."
The guy has no clue about boxing other than what he's read in all the books he lists in the last chapter and probably An Illustrated History of Boxing by Nat Fleischer.
Don't buy the book. M.g has posted Jack Dempsey's book which explains the punches taught in this book far better.