Question about Judas and Suicide?

In the catholic tradition if someone commits suicide then they are doomed to hell forever.

But what if that person repents before they die?

Say someone tries to OD on pills and before that person dies they decide they want to live and ask God for forgiveness and they try to save themselves but they die anyway. Does that person get forgiveness and does that person go heaven?

I've always wondered about that?

What if Judas asked for forgiveness while he was swinging, do you think he got forgiveness?

Always one of those religious questions that intrigued me. I'm reading the "Case for Faith" now by Lee Strobel, and this question crossed my mind.

ProMagnus,



Actually I have heard many Catholics say the ultimate fate of suicides is unknown.  I think it is a very serious sin but they are not ruling out complications like severe mental depression.



But I don't believe in conditional forgiveness.  I think God's forgiveness is an open offer for every and all sins.  The problem is repentance.  God won't destroy our sins without our consent.  That is why the sin against the Holy Spirit is designated by Christ as unforgivable.  When you get to the point that you can no longer repent then you can no longer be forgiven. 

self-murder is the ultimare insult to G-d, greater than idolatry.

This Catholic, however, is not sympathetic:



 I put these things not in their mature logical sequence,
but as they came: and this view was cleared and sharpened by
an accident of the time. Under the lengthening shadow of Ibsen,
an argument arose whether it was not a very nice thing to murder
one's self. Grave moderns told us that we must not even say
"poor fellow," of a man who had blown his brains out, since he was
an enviable person, and had only blown them out because of their
exceptional excellence. Mr. William Archer even suggested that in
the golden age there would be penny-in-the-slot machines, by which
a man could kill himself for a penny. In all this I found myself
utterly hostile to many who called themselves liberal and humane.
Not only is suicide a sin, it is the sin. It is the ultimate and
absolute evil, the refusal to take an interest in existence; the refusal
to take the oath of loyalty to life. The man who kills a man,
kills a man. The man who kills himself, kills all men;
as far as he is concerned he wipes out the world. His act is worse
(symbolically considered) than any rape or dynamite outrage.
For it destroys all buildings: it insults all women. The thief is
satisfied with diamonds; but the suicide is not: that is his crime.
He cannot be bribed, even by the blazing stones of the Celestial City.
The thief compliments the things he steals, if not the owner of them.
But the suicide insults everything on earth by not stealing it.
He defiles every flower by refusing to live for its sake. There is
not a tiny creature in the cosmos at whom his death is not a sneer.
When a man hangs himself on a tree, the leaves might fall off in anger
and the birds fly away in fury: for each has received a personal affront.
Of course there may be pathetic emotional excuses for the act.
There often are for rape, and there almost always are for dynamite.
But if it comes to clear ideas and the intelligent meaning of things,
then there is much more rational and philosophic truth in the
burial at the cross-roads and the stake driven through the body,
than in Mr. Archer's suicidal automatic machines. There is a meaning
in burying the suicide apart. The man's crime is different from
other crimes--for it makes even crimes impossible.

About the same time I read a solemn flippancy by some free thinker:
he said that a suicide was only the same as a martyr. The open fallacy
of this helped to clear the question. Obviously a suicide is the
opposite of a martyr. A martyr is a man who cares so much for
something outside him, that he forgets his own personal life.
A suicide is a man who cares so little for anything outside him,
that he wants to see the last of everything. One wants something
to begin: the other wants everything to end. In other words,
the martyr is noble, exactly because (however he renounces the world
or execrates all humanity) he confesses this ultimate link with life;
he sets his heart outside himself: he dies that something may live.
The suicide is ignoble because he has not this link with being:
he is a mere destroyer; spiritually, he destroys the universe.
And then I remembered the stake and the cross-roads, and the queer fact
that Christianity had shown this weird harshness to the suicide.
For Christianity had shown a wild encouragement of the martyr.
Historic Christianity was accused, not entirely without reason,
of carrying martyrdom and asceticism to a point, desolate and pessimistic.
The early Christian martyrs talked of death with a horrible happiness.
They blasphemed the beautiful duties of the body: they smelt the grave
afar off like a field of flowers. All this has seemed to many the
very poetry of pessimism. Yet there is the stake at the crossroads
to show what Christianity thought of the pessimist.

purgatory,still can make Heaven!

good old pugatory...LOL

supposedly that's why catholic people live the life of sin...because they are convinced that if their remaining family has enough money...they can be purged of their sins in purgatory...NOT

You both seem to be unaware of the real teaching of the CC on purgatory.

Purgatory:

SCANTLY DEFINED

The word "purgatory" is derived from the Latin "purgare" ("to make clean," "to purify"), and is taken to mean as : "...the state, place, or condition in the next world, which will continue until the last judgment, where the souls of those who die in the state of grace, but not yet free from all imperfection, make expiation for unforgiven venial sins or for the temporal punishment due to venial sins and mortal sins that have already been forgiven and, by so doing, are purified before they enter heaven." (New Catholic Encyclopedia, vol. 11, p. 1034)

Catholic doctrine states that when a person dies, his soul is immediately brought to God's judgment. One who dies holy goes to heaven; if he dies in mortal sin, he is sent at once to hell; and if he dies in the state of grace but has not fully atoned for his venial sins, he is sent to purgatory (My Catholic Faith: A Manual of Religion, p. 157)

Consequently, as such a realm is believed to exist, Catholics are taught that prayers, good works, indulgences, and the Mass done by them on earth can help the souls in purgatory to be freed and admitted to heaven:

Question - How do you get a priest to perform a Mass for the Dead...By slipping him an envelope...


Okay - what point am i missing about purgatory...ps i do not know what cc is...

CC is "Catholic Church",
(the below is very generalized)
Next Catholics are the atheists of the religious(IMO). Laws are created by man and not god, the pope can change holy law, cardinals and the like are a higher life form that the masses etc.... This means we can have direct change as men over holy law, gods law, etc... Pope says it the it is true, and it is law. Atheists believe man is higher than all, and changes law as they see fit (true democracy or Mob Rules) Both of these are dangerous as with any extreme religious beliefs thinking actions in this life can or will be justified in the next can lead into things like Jihads, Crusades, Inquisitions, Holocausts, Purges etc.... Oh BTW I was raised Catholic, and I am a Christian just not one that really fits into a category or organized religion.

If you disagree please let me know, I could be totally off in left field and this is my opinion and I am here for other opinions/beliefs I don't know Jack when it comes to God and happily admit it.
Thanks

Is everybody done Catholic bashing and being  ignorant yet?

As a Catholic there are certain things I can totally understand not agreeing with. But too much of the venom really is honestly based on half truths or a lack of knowledge about how stuff really works.

Yep.  Its amazing how much hatred towards the CC is based on things that aren't true about the CC. 

robert, I warned you....not a nice comment...please edit

use the word purgatory,for understanding purposes,Catholics are the mental retarded section of

religion,their beliefs are based on how they want things to be,and what can make a buck.

Racialist IMO.

And extremely unelightened.

"and if he dies in the state of grace but has not fully atoned for his venial sins, he is sent to purgatory "

I was always taught that Christs sacrifice covered all sins past, present and future. It was the ulitmate and final atonement.

Wow! I go away for a while and the place goes to hell! Charmoity, let's see, the religion that gave the world, Augustine of Hippo, Aquinas, and untold others,that created Western Civilization, is unenlightened.

That' just stupid.

Mongolike, You're clueless.

I will admit it is quite possible I am, and that is why I am on this thread to learn and pipe in once in a while.

"Wow! I go away for a while and the place goes to hell! Charmoity, let's see, the religion that gave the world, Augustine of Hippo, Aquinas, and untold others,that created Western Civilization, is unenlightened."

Yea, I'm actually saying that too. Calling Catholics retarded is ignorant at best and predjudice at worst.

he was quoting what Robert posted and i deleted...really by reposting what he said defeats the purpose of me deleting it...it's a thoughtless remark to make and one that didnt need reposted, even if you were trying to make a point.

now I'm probably going to have to delete your post

not to mention that word is insulting to those with special needs