Question about the Trinity

Do you guys believe in the Trinity? And if so how do you explain it to someone. Ive heard it expalained like this.
Ice Cube, its one, but as a solid its the Father. When its melting its the Son. And when its completly water its the Holy Spirit. But its one ice cube but has three different parts.

Or how about the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are the same person(God), but was called different names through different periods of time. During the old testament Jesus was called Jehovah. During his earth years he was Jesus. And after the resurrection he came back as the Holy Spirit.

Bro. every analogy breaks down at some point. However, I'm not a trinitarian. To me it just makes more sense that God is one with no distinction of persons. Though I do acknowledge a biblical distinction between the Father and Son, this distinction is neither eternal nor equal. I'm a Oneness Pentecostal and I'd be glad to discuss further.

in robotic voice
Launch Sequence Initiated

Launch Rooster and m.g. in 4.....3......2.....

I do.

Some use a shamrock as an illustration...three leaves, one plant.

Just a warning, this will likely slowly but surely degrade into an ugly thread...hopefully I'm wrong.

LOL...puzzled has launched the correct (on the last part of his post).

What do Oneness Pentecostals believe?

The Shamrock seems like a good illustration. Better than the ice cube anyway.

The thing thats confusing to me. Is that the Holy Spirit came upon Mary to make Jesus. But Jesus always calls the Father God, Father. He refers to the Holy Spirit as the comfortor. So maybe there is just two gods in the trinity. And I know they are one Im not trying to blasphem. But maybe the Father is the Holy Spirit as well. And Jesus is the son of this Spirit. Even though he is one with it at the same time.

Here's how I look at it. There is God the Father. He is the Universe, he is everything and is in everything. There is God the Son. He is God made Man for our salvation. Then there is God the Holy Spirit. He is God that lives within each of us.

I look at the Trinity as an attempt to describe not only that God is in and is everything, but that He also has a very personal relationship with each one of us.

so there are 3 GOD's?? Dragon,is that how im interpreting that?

TT

No, there are not three Gods. There is one God. We just don't have the capacity to understand what is going on, so we come up with concepts to try and help us.

"No, there are not three Gods. There is one God. We just don't have the capacity to understand what is going on, so we come up with concepts to try and help us."

exactly what I think too.....good post dragon

I look at it like a family

john, raquel, adriahna, cheyenne four persons, one family

but I strongly believe that we are trying to make sense of something that is beyond us.

Also your ice cube analogy is very close to what the oneness pentecostals would believe

the rev

Hi everyone ;-)

God is a Spirit. He is everywhere. He is the maker of all things. He made the earth, he made all men. He made the incarnation, or man, Christ Jesus. Because He dwelt in that body, that incarnation was God and man.

Because He made the Body, He (the Spirit) is the Father of the man Christ Jesus. Because the body was made by God, He (the man Christ Jesus) is Son to the Spirit.

Father, Son and Holy Spirit are 3 of innumerable titles that define the One God in activity (Father in creation, Son in redemption, etc.)

3 dimensions of space or 3 durations of time.

I agree that most analogies breakdown at some point. BUT they are useful only if understand the fundamental point they are trying to illustrate.

The premise with the doctrine of the trinity is God is one in one respect or sense and three in another.

A good analogy just illustrates that premise. That is, it illustrates the idea of three but one.

Space is one thing BUT it is made up of three distinct aspect. Each dimension or aspect is equally space, that is they each share the same quality or essence that is called space BUT they are distincted in identity. Each aspects exist simultaneously. And space as a whole is incomplete without each aspect. When you speak of space you speak of all three.

Every single point in space has a x,y,z going through it. X represents horizontal, y vertical, and z tranverse (the line which goes through the intersect on x and y). So if I were to give each of those letters a number, any number like 1,2,3, to represent it those numbers will always be a single point in space.

This is a clear example of how three can be one. You can do a simplar illustration with time.

"...they are distincted by identity."

Identity is not a useful word to describe the trinity if one is to argue that God is numerically one...

Identity can be defined as: The distinct personality of an individual regarded as a persisting entity; individuality.

God cannot be one and yet 3 individuals unless God is a title that refers to a group of entities.

There is an illustration at the GodandScience.org site. Just do a search for "Trinity".

Something that cracks me up about you, m.g., is that everyone else uses qualifying phrases like "the way I see it", "as far as I understand", or "according to my beliefs"----but you don't!!!!!! you just state it like its fact.

In a way I think its admirable. In another way I think its what is often wrong with this forum.

I do

1+1+1=3

1x1x1=1

yours in Christ

sherm

sherm, 1x1 (x 1 ad infinity) is just 1 times by itself. That would be like saying God times Himself, no matter how many times...leaves One.

1 plus 1 seems to be a more accurate model because here you have a distinction to the 1's.

Father times father, times father always equals father.

Same with Son and Spirit.

However, because the trinity model is distinction of persons, Father is an addition to the Son in addition to the spirit, correct?

Tulkas,

All you have to do is just assume that what I say is nothing more than my view and opinion. I am not saying, absolutely, this is the way things are. I am just offering my view. You don't have to agree with it.

Just because I don't say: "the way I see it", "as far as I understand", or "according to my beliefs" that I don't feel that way.

Also I seriously doubt that "everyone" actually states: "the way I see it", "as far as I understand", or "according to my beliefs" before they give their view. And I also don't think that just because they don't say that they don't feel or think their view isn't based on their beliefs, understanding, or viewpoint.

I am a trinitarian. Many people here know that. I've stated that many times. It shouldn't be surprising that any answer or statement that I give on the subject is going to have a trinitarian flavor to it.

But that shouldn't be surprising to those who know me on this forum since many know I am a trinitarian and a devout believer and defender of the doctrine.

Nonetheless I am JUST offering my view and opinion on the matter I am NOT telling you or anyone how to believe. Nor am I telling you to agree with me.

No offense but stop taking my view to heart and stop taking them to personal.

rooster,

The truth of triunity makes perfect sense and is fundamentally demonstrated in mathmatics. The unity of the Godhead is not a simple unity but an interdependent unity. Expressed mathmatically it would never be 1+1+1=1, for independent unity never gives true equality. But 1x1x1=1, for idependent unity gives an exact correspondence of equality, the omission of one part of such an interdependent unity, leads to the loss of the entire product.

It's not the names alone that denote the Church's historical view of the trinity, but the unique characteristics consistent with these names.

yours in Christ

sherm

Sherm,
thanks...