Question for ALL BJJ people here!

Do you prefer the format of the grappling tournaments we have here in Canada especially in Ontario, where if you fight with the GI, you or your student,are not able to face someone of same rank, but instead, years experience?


would you like to compete in a tournament, where you or your student, could face off against people of same rank as you in your martial art discipline (BJJ)? (White/Blue/Purple/Brown/Black)

Also, do you prefer to be clumped together with 2 other divisions after cutting weight and nobody shows up in your division?


Would you or your student rather be given the gold medal and the option to receive another by competing in an open weight division with people of the same BJJ rank!

Once again this thread is directed at people who practice, train or teach the martial art of brazillian jiu-jitsu.

how about this you guys bring some tournaments up to NEO (nothern Estern Ontario) and then all tell you lol

thanx. hows about you just help me out by answerin da thread there partner

I would prefer belt dividions.

Divisions need to be combined if there are not enough people. This sucks, but who wants a medal they didn't have to beat anyone for.

that is why there is the open division (absolute) in REAL BJJ tournaments. if Fighter A made weight and was the only person who came ready to fight on a particular day, I feel he deserves his gold. Than, if he so chooses, he has the option to fight in the open division. Actually, you must register beforehand to compete in the open division.

In Brazil, winning the openweight division is prestigious, and perhaps its time we do it here as well.

when Jacare wins the Open division of the Mundials everyone knows.

When Roger wins the ADCC openweight division, everyone knows.

i think that both have there advantages. the only problem is when you have a person from another art competing after a couple of months in jujitsu. they may be a white belt in jujitsu but a black in judo. i am not a BJJ practitioner however i know i personally would not want one of my students to face a person with ten years of experience when they only have 6 months worth. and if you look at the other side of the coin, someone with a great deal of experience in another grappling art may not want to face the weaker competition but they are forced to, and they are then ridiculed and called a sandbagger, you cant win. i feel that the joslins tournament is a good model for running these types of tournament if you always want a fair match of your skill level (years experience vs years experience) however i also feel that the sport loses some of its identity when you create a system for the sole purpose of accommodating other styles. if you want to preserve tradition you will have to accept that some of the white belts will be years ahead of allot of their competition, and that the playing field will not be level until the higher ranks compete. this happens all the time in Judo. you get an excellent wrestler with 4 or 5 years of experience but he has only been doing Judo for a couple of months, he has a clear advantage over someone with only 2 or three months of Judo but what can you do. they usually dominate until they are a brown or black belt and then they start to look human. that is if they are not discouraged by the easier competition early on.

The point im trying to make is this. Brazillian Jiu-jitsu is a martial art as well as sport. Brazillian Jiu-jitsu tournaments follow a format that is divided by ranks and weight divisions. This format may not be fair to all white belts, however if someone wants to sandbag and be the white belt champion for years, what has this person really gained? These people are usually weeded out and only makes for better competition when they compete as a blue belt.

the thing is, im not trying to invent rules that I just made up or something.These rules and formats do exists. I practice, train, teach and compete (occasionally) in Brazillian Jiu-jitsu. BJJ is a martial art that has a strong sport history in BRAZIL where it came from. North America saw the idea of the sport and wanted to do it here.

If you stop and realize it, we have made the sport something it is not. I think that grappling tournaments are great, and they can be done from time to time, but who the hell knew anything about Grappling before BJJ came along? Be realistic.

Grappling came from BJJ. Grappling tournaments are similar but not the same as BJJ tournaments.

Do karate guys modify the rules of Karate tournaments just for the sake of getting more people?

Competition by belt colour, but I like the open division idea as well.

For the BB in Judo, have a club owner stand up for him and have him compete in blue for his first tourny. Then he can can move up as his BJJ skills grow.

I feel there needs to be a seperation made between grappling tournaments and brazillian jiu-jitsu tournaments

Grappling tournaments could be for anyone who does BJJ,Sambo, Judo etc...and wants to test there skills against other grappling arts. There is the Gi and No-Gi division like what we are doing right now.

Than there can be BJJ tournaments for people who do BJJ.

Is it me or doesnt it seem weird that we have competitions for a martial art that doesnt exist?

Grappling is not a martial art. Grappling is a word to define a fighting style. I dont know of anyone who can say they started the martial art of Grappling. I know where jiu-jitsu and Judo came from as well as BJJ. But grappling is not a martial art.

that's my point exactly. i agree that BJJ should Maintain its individual identity. I am only saying that many people that have been doing other forms of grappling will feel like they are cheating if they compete against the less experienced grapplers. but if it is a requirement that they compete at there belt level than that cannot be avoided. i don't think that you would suggest that a person should avoid competition until they are finally at a high level. for example, would you say that someone with 5 years of Judo or wrestling or sambo should wait until they are a purple or brown belt before they can even compete, that could take 3 to five years. that does not seem fair to them or to their competition. there has to be a way in BJJ Tournaments to fight up in your BJJ ranks. Maybe at the instructors discretion. in judo when a competitor is very good we sign a waiver and our student can fight in a higher division. We do this because although a person may not have a great understanding of all of the techniques that does not mean that they are not excellent compeditors. an experienced wrestler or BJJ Black belt would be wasting there time fighting the white belts at your local competition and not only that but it is also dangerous for the beginner to be competing against such a high level athlete.
just my thoughts.

Mike Nomikos

i like your idea of an open division I think that is a step in the right direction. like i said i am not a BJJ practitioner but i think it's a great art and it should be preserved and given its due respect.

I never suggest people dont compete. I just think that if we made things fair to the bjj competitors, we would grow better long term.

it is not fair for a blue belt here, who because he has been training for more than 3 years, to have to face a black belt in BJJ like Mark Bocek or Richard Nancoo. His teammates and coaches can only pat him on the back and wish him luck so many times before this competitor becomes uninterested in competing anymore.

I know tournaments are not all about winning, BUT, they should at least be fair. Is it unfair to want a person to compete against another person of same rank and martial arts discipline?

Does any other Martial art have competition that makes people compete against others by years trained and not belt rank?

I cannot think of any.

Judo ontario has got their S#%t together, but for some reason, it seems BJJ is doomed as far as having organized competitions.

The federation that overlooks all of the major tournaments of BJJ has a president who is the son of one of the art's founders. It is not too late

No Baleia they there isn't another martial art that competes that way but as i stated, and i can only speak for Judo, but there is not much complaining if a person with allot of BJJ or wrestling experience competes at there "Rank" in judo we just accept that it happens and that they are also learning a new art and finally that the playing field will eventually even out at the top, were it really matters.

one of the problems may be that there seems to be a difference in terms of leadership between the coined terms Gracie jujitsu and BJJ. what is needed is a international BJJ federation that everyone belongs to. even Abudabi and the submission Wrestling practitioners have already started to go in that direction, and that is after only a short time. at this point there is still allot of money involved with who is perceived to be, or have, the best way of doing BJJ. once everyone is able to get a fair piece of the pie you will start seeing some changes.

Mike, BJJ has an international BJJ federation. it is the one I mentioned above. All of the major international BJJ tournaments are tournaments under this federation. This is for BJJ.

For Gracie Jiu-jitsu, select members of the Gracie family started another league but they are the only ones who run the tournament once a year.

are you required to be a member of that organization?

that I am not sure of but I know in brazil you are.

I think for international competitions its is fine.

in Judo Every Country's individual organization for example Judo Canada, Judo Brazil etc. is required to be a member of the IJF. this ensures that ever country's organization have to follow a set standard of rules and a set syllabus. that what i mean by a international federation. unless all the organizations agree to follow that federations set standard BJJ will not see a rapid increase in popularity in other countries and it certainly will not have a chance at possibly becoming an Olympic sport. that's unfortunate but it is true. as i said before there is a money and an debate on technical supremacy that needs to be overcome. there needs to be more people like you doing what they can and asking questions and raising issues in order for the people that are actually in a position to do something to start listening and tending to there art. i wish you all the luck in your efforts to help organize BJJ and if there is anything i can do to help i would certainly be of service. Ciao for now

Mike Nomikos