Matt,
I teach a class that combines elements of BJJ, Muay Thai, adrenal stress aand verbal de-escalation techniques. I have found that the average person, just like you said on Rodney's tapes, has a hard time learning boxing skills because they have very few attributes. Therefore, I teach basic motor movements when it comes to striking. I have since watched the Singer Hardcore DVD and 80% of it seems to cover boxing related material. So my question is do you teach the material on the DVD to your regular students or is that more for your fighters? All my classes are taught with functional techniques and trained in very "ALIVE" sessions.
I think I can handle this question. First you have to understand that Matt and I both come from western boxing backgrounds (as does Rodney). Over the years of teaching begginers the standard boxing game. Pat, catch, shoulder roll etc etc. A few things became apparent, most people will never become good boxers (lack of attributes, lack of time to put into training, also learning clinch, BJJ and other stuff), it is bad for Biz if your begginers leave the gym with a head ache and lastly traditional wester boxing (WB) is not necasarily the perfect delivery system of NHB. We would end up with a few good standup fighters, tough guys that could take a punch and people afraid to spar.
So SBG evolved: we found a better defensive structure (CM thanks to Rodney) and started reworking the standup around this idea. We also realized how little a person really needs to know to be a pretty decent standup fighter. So our begginers get CM, a couple straight punchs and a solid understanding of footwork, distance and timing (aliveness). Now if a person has a desire and ability to take the next steps we can add depth. Material on that DVD is depth, Phase 2 CM is depth, kicking is depth, for some even a hook is as much depth as they can handle. I have some pro level fighters that have never seen the material on that DVD in the manner presented on the DVD. But as a coach I have given them what fits there style and needs. I hope this answers the question.
Adam
Thank you Adam. That does answer my question. I have been very impressed with all the SBG material that I have viewed(yours and Rodney's)and I was just looking for some clarification. Thanks again.
No problem. It is funny that you asked the question because I have been in a current "reduction phase" of my training and teaching. This weekend I did a workshop with about 20 people. I showed a set of drills for stopping the takedown. I had a varying level in the room (from 3 sbgi coaches to people that have never trained alive). So I had to really find the bare bones of the drills. When all was said and done we had discovered that 99% of staying on your feet was:
1. level change/sprawl
2. Whizzer
3. Dominant Control positions
Now some may say no shit. But imagine you have never wrestled and now think about how quickly we can show you these things (the third one being the hardest). Now if you still wanted depth we can do that later.]
Adam
td11,
Adam said it best. For me the difference in the way we teach stand up now, as compared to the way we taught a few Years ago, is seen mostly in the performance of the beginners that come through the door.
I have never had a group of people who where ALL able defend themselves well standing, and spar without turning away, dropping their hands, etc, until I switched over the the CM structure. Before that, as Adam said it was some people, and who was left.
Once they get that down (CM), then adding the other aspects of boxing, if it's something they want to pursue, is much easier. It's great stuff.
Also, your idea of basic motor movements is right on. That's a great way to structure a curriculum.
-Matt Thornton
www.straightblastgym.com
Who is this Adam Singer and Matt Thornton. Have either one of you ever fought...what the hell do you know.
By the way, Version 2.0 is coming to Portland in a few months and taking home the gorilla cup. There I said it...IT'S ON NOW!
More impoortantly do either of them understrand the Tao?
Adam
"By the way, Version 2.0 is coming to Portland in a few months and taking home the gorilla cup."
Oh oh. . .I know a few purples in Beaverton and Portland that may disagree with that. In addition, if one "jonathen" from a certain FLA Gym makes the cup. . . .then chances are. . .
Better upgrade to 3.0 my friend.
Adam,
Quick question on CM? It appears on the DVD that you are using taps and parrys for straight punches and CM for looping strikes or hooks. The tape that I have directly from Rodney shows him using CM for all punches. It appears it the fight scenes from his tapes that he only uses CM if the person has him cornered or they are in very close. Is my interpretation correct or am I missing something?
Todd
I think what you see in the DVD and from Rodney is a more mixed defensive structure of CM and attribute based boxing (WB). Both the DVD and the tape are about 2 years old and I can tell you personally the mix of WB and CM certainly favors CM by a large margin. I know rodney and myself use WB to play with people that do not threaten us. However when the S hits the Fan I am all CM.
Adam
That is pretty much what I thought. I just have so many Adult students that can't walk and chew gum at the same time and trying to teach them anything that is not basic as hell is tough. Everytime we move to live resistance most of the students get killed unless they are doing basic gross motor skills. That is why I was wondering on what I saw on the videos because that is more than basic skills. Thanks again
Todd
We try not to make a real distiction between basic and advanced in SBG. So it might be semantics but I like to think in terms of core vs peripheral techniques.
Adam
I agree, I just ment "basic" gross motor skill movements. I do not make a distinction between basic and advanced.
Todd
Saw the SBG production 3 tape Street Boxing set and REALLY liked it.
I would go as far as to say that Rodney King was inspirational in the skills that he exhibited and in breaking it down and demonstrating a logical progression of introducing techniques and drills to build your own skills.
Now comes my raw newbie question!
When practicing against someone employing a CM type cover/guard, do people ever hit the guarding elbow with their fist in sparring?
If do they damage their hand?
Or is it really the forearm that you are using in the cover to block with, as it appears from the SBG tapes?
Also, do people get a bit nervous about punching when facing the CM guard when training and sort of pull their punches or not punch as committedly?
thanks
Tyler, Yes, you can "spike" the fist with the elbow, and we work that. But in general you catch on the upper forearm.
-Matt
Thanks, Matt,
What I meant was
1. Do people ever spike their fist on the person they are sparing with's guard while sparring/drilling?
2. If they do so, how badly do they injure their hands?
3. Can the fear of doing so hinder their training when facing someone employing a CM guard hinder their training/practice in the form of not really committing to their strikes for fear of injury?
This came to my mind while watching the tape.
Again, I am talking about a relatively green/new person who is not really athletically or competitively inclined.
thanks!
Please don't get me wrong, I think the SBG Rodney King Street Boxing tape is great and exciting, and when I read things about it like I do in this thread and how it works for beginners it only reinforces this belief. But I have some questions about people with less aptitude learning it and applying it and possible roadblocks.
thanks again.
Tyler, I am headed out the door. We have a blizzard here and it's time to get in the snow.
Briefly,
1. Do people ever spike their fist on the person they are sparing with's guard while sparring/drilling?
No, that would be something that would most likely have to be intentional. With the exception of hitting the elbow on hooks, and uppercuts on occasion. Which happens with regular boxing as well.
2. If they do so, how badly do they injure their hands?
See above, non issue.
3. Can the fear of doing so hinder their training when facing someone employing a CM guard hinder their training/practice in the form of not really committing to their strikes for fear of injury?
No, I have run hundreds of people through the phase one CM cycle of training, both at seminars, and my own Gym, and that has never been an issue.
-Matt Thornton
www.straightblastgym.com
Matt/Adam,
Do you think people should specialize in a particular area so they become proficient at that as their base?
For example, for several years I used to train everything. When I scaled back the training to just wrestling and BJJ, I felt significant improvements in both.
Thanks, Matt,
Drive safely.