This is something I have been pondering, and I want to hear other people's opinion.
I think that God has given us Free Will as His greatest gift to us; but in order to be in His Grace, we must freely give that gift back to Him and submit to His Will of our own accord.
I don't know where I'm going with this, but it's a thought that I haven't been able to shake out of my head.
A sincere look into how the nervous system works (and a quick look into the studies done by Benjamin Libet) will show you that, first, there is a stimulus and then there is a response.
There is a decision (stimulus) and then there is a response (the awareness of that decision). The illusion of Free Will is simply that; an illusion and does not truly exist. It is all God's Will.
SCRAP
p.s. Just wait for the "if there's no free will, then that means I'm not accountable for my actions so I'll just go rape my grandmother!" arguments.
If there's no free will, then that means I'm not accountable for my actions so I'll just go rape my grandmother (even though neither of them are alive anymore)!
Sorry, I couldn't resist...
If there's no free will, then there's no love. And I could go and rape my grandmother and not be accountable.
Puzzled
Oh and I agree with you H20Dragon. But wait until the reformed see this thread. They'll get us straight lickedy split.
Free Will for president in 2005.
Puzzled
Love isn't something you choose to do.
If it is, then choose not to love God right now. Then, 5 minutes from now, choose to love him again. Or, choose to fall out of love with your wife. Then tell her about your decision but reassure her than in 5 minutes you'll be back in love with her and she doesn't need to worry.
It's just a simple matter of choosing. Right?
Now, feel free to rape your grandmother.
"Love isn't something you choose to do."
I suppose that depends on how you define "love". According to my definition, love IS something you choose to do.
According to my definition, love IS something you choose to do.
What's your definition?
"What's your definition?"
Love is the choice I make to be faithful, supportive and caring of my wife for the rest of my life.
To me, love is not just an emotion...it is a consious decision to do something for the rest of my life, regardless of how I feel. I know my feelings will change as I progress through my life. But my devotion to my wife will never change. That is love.
http://www.escrivaworks.org/book/friends_of_god/point/231
What kind of love are we talking about? Sacred Scripture uses the Latin word dilectio, to make us understand clearly that it does not simply mean the feeling of affection. It signifies, rather, a firm determination on the part of the will. Dilectio comes from electio, choice. I would add that, for Christians, loving means 'wanting to love', making up one's mind in Christ to work for the good of souls, without discrimination of any kind; trying to obtain for them, before any other good, the greatest good of all, that of knowing Christ and falling in love with him.
Our Lord spurs us on: 'Do good to those who hate you, pray for those who persecute and insult you.' We might not feel humanly attracted to those who would reject us were we to approach them. But Jesus insists: we must not return evil for evil; we must not waste any opportunities we have of serving them wholeheartedly, even if we find it difficult to do so; we must never cease keeping them in mind in our prayers.
This dilectio, this charity, becomes even more affectionate when its object is our brothers in the faith and particularly those who, by God's will, work close beside us: our parents, husband or wife, children, brothers and sisters, friends and colleagues, neighbours. Without this affection, which is a noble and pure human love directed towards God and based on him, there would be no charity.
It sounds like the person making that claim is trying to mix Love and Dedication. To make a conscious decision to do something, no matter how you feel, is dedication.
A simple way of looking at it would be doing a job you dislike, but know that you need to do it to pay the bills, support your family, etc. Being dedicated to your job doesn't mean you LOVE your job.
And this dedication arises AFTER the emotion of Love appears. You wouldn't dedicate your life to some stranger without the feeling of Love being present.
So, choose to Love me with all of your heart. Even if it's just for a split second. For one second, feel as though you would do anything in the world for me. You can always choose to stop that feeling. Right?
I mean, I'm not even asking for you to do anything for me. Just feel that feeling and then turn it off.
Should be pretty simple.
SCRAP
I suppose the difference is that you thhink love is nothing more than a emotion (which is a common belief). I see love as much more than that. No big deal though...
Sorry Scrap, I have to disagree with you on this one.
To me, love is a verb. It is something you choose to do. That is why you see so many people get divorced today. They think love is this feeling that just 'happens'.
I fell out of love with my wife. Then, when I started doing little things for her like calling to see how she was, bringing home flowers, etc. I started feeling the same way I did when I first met her. I fell back in love with her. Therefore, in my mind, love is a verb; not an emotion.
"I fell out of love with my wife. Then, when I started doing little things for her like calling to see how she was, bringing home flowers, etc. I started feeling the same way I did when I first met her. I fell back in love with her. Therefore, in my mind, love is a verb; not an emotion. "
EXACTLY!!!!
I suppose the difference is that you thhink love is nothing more than a emotion (which is a common belief). I see love as much more than that. No big deal though...
Nothing more than an emotion? It sounds like the only one trivializing Love on this thread is you (and H20 Dragon).
Love is what drives a single mother to work 2 jobs so her children can have everything they need. Love is what pushes a man to push aside temptation and be faithful to his woman.
Love is the original source for these actions and cannot be chosen.
By attempting to make it sound like I'm trivializing Love you guys are avoiding what I've been asking you for. Even if it's a verb, then CHOOSE to love me, absolutely, for 1 minute. It can be in your living room for all I care...just choose to devote your entire existence to me.
And then one minute later, choose to stop that feeling.
I think this is the third time I've asked for this. How much longer are you going to dodge the issue?
SCRAP
"And then one minute later, choose to stop that feeling."
Scrapper, I still don't think you understand what I'm saying. It's really not that important though, just an observation on my part.
Unless I'm mistaken, you are defining love as both a noun and verb (something I'm sure Tom would have issue with since he says a thing can't be itself and not-itself at the same time).
While noble, your actions are DRIVEN by Love. Without the initial feeling of Love (lets replace the word wife with your job title) then your actions are driven by dedication (or greed depending on the situation).
Having that base; you said Love is something you CHOOSE to do and I'm asking you to Love me.
How hard is that?
SCRAP
"Having that base; you said Love is something you CHOOSE to do and I'm asking you to Love me."
All romoness aside, I do love you. You're a child of God, made in His image. If you are created in God's image, and I don't love you, what does that say about me? Charity is loving others for the sake of God.
Charity is loving others for the sake of God.
This is conditional Love done for the SAKE of another.
Why not love just for love itself....if it's a choice?
"Why not love just for love itself...."
I tend to think God IS love in it's purest sometimes...