Question on Free Will

How am I trivializing the concept of Love on this thread? Believe me, that is not my intention.

I fell out of love with my wife. Then, when I started doing little things for her like calling to see how she was, bringing home flowers, etc. I started feeling the same way I did when I first met her. I fell back in love with her. Therefore, in my mind, love is a verb; not an emotion.

Look carefully at what you are saying. You fell out of love (without choosing to do so), you started doing nice things (in the absence of the feeling of Love), AND THEN you felt Love towards her again.

That's how it happens. You wake up one day and feel like you simply cannot spend your life without that other person. That feeling of Love is nurtured by actions of devotion/dedication.

Insisting that you have control over love seems like a pretty weak argument for Free Will.

"Insisting that you have control over love seems like a pretty weak argument for Free Will."

Well, I'm not trying to do that. St Kolbe and yourself hijacked my thread, but I thought it was a very interesting conversation, so I joined in.

To me, love is a choice, but it's not this instant thing. You don't just "make a decision" to love and do it.

It's like working out. You don't just wake up and decide to have a six pack. You do monhts and years of abwork, cardio, and watch your diet. After all of that work, you get your six pack. But if you start slacking, it goes away real quick.

I think love is the same way, and is a result of the effort we put into it.

This is a toatlly different topic to me than when I asked about free will and submitting to God. I still think it's a good topic though.

Didn't mean to hijack the thread. Check out some of Benjamin Libet's studies on conscious decision.


Try C.S. Lewis "the Four Loves" to understand that there are different types of love (the Greeks had different names for each type) and that you can experience or practice more than one type with the same person.

I believe Christian love is meant to be agape, which is definitely a love born of the will and also emanating from Christ through his followers. Its the kind of love that causes a person to go serve someone clear across the world and give up all earthly comforts.

"Didn't mean to hijack the thread"

No problems. This is turning out to be a better discussion anyway.

Dragon- I'll see if we can get this back on track as I've been thinking a lot about this lately....


If I recall, Libet found that the hand was moving before the area of the brain had awakened to make the "decision", right? And from this he concluded that it was all stimulus and reaction? Am I remembering correctly?

However, this runs us into the "first mover" question, doesn't it? I mean, if you view "you" as your brain then you would have to accept Libet's argument. If, on the other hand, you view your brain as a only a part of you, then his findings can be questioned. Couldn't another part of "you" (if you view "you" as a compilation of mind, body, spirit, heart) have made the "decision" (ie, acted as first mover) and your brain was just a little behind? Is that not an argument for free will?

Do we have to assume that what motivates "you" can be measured? Can science determine the first mover? I, personally, don't think so. I prefer to think that life is a combination of fate and free will. I think that God has in mind both a Fate and a Destiny for us. Destiny, I think, is a higher goal. Something for which we need to strive via our free will. Fate is what happens if we do nothing.

One quote I read was that life is like a card game: God dealt the cards and then leaves it up to you what to do with them. Hold em or fold em, that's your free will. I'd add one thing to that: He's a generous dealer. He'll help. It's like 5 card draw: if you pray, believe, and strive hard enough He'll give you a couple of new cards.