Questions abt BJJ's future

DJV - lol yeah I get the same capoeira thing as well, but not about the brazilian wax..

Elvis I checked out the NSW BJJ Federation website but it doesn't have much detail on it's history, the motivation for the forming of the state fed, who was involved, how it was done etc.

Darth, Luke, Yoda and friends had the same problem. You see, the Trade Federation, the Empire and the Alliance were not valid associations either. Hence light sabres and submission grappling using the force (gi and no gi)were never allowed as olympic sports either...

Interesting point gakami. You should email them (I'm sure the link is there for that) and suggest they add that to their website. I know Luke Beston is involved with running the site so maybe he'll see this as well.

I get the same thing with Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and Capoeira. I also get a confused look when I mention MMA, I usually have to say UFC or Cage Fighting to get any sort of recognition.


I have another question for everyone - it sounds like a few of you
want to see BJJ progress, more competitions and better
recognition more in line with a pro-circuit kind of thing. Can BJJ
do all this without Aust Sports Commission (ASC) recognition?
Keep in mind that even the Australian Ju-Jitsu Federation has ASC
recognition www . jujitsu . com . au , I'm talking about the
traditional Japanese Ju-Jitsu martial art, absolutely nothing to do
with the Brazilian variety of Jiu Jitsu.

Receiving recognition from the ASC means having to have
registered BJJ instructors/coaches, the NCAS certification (National
Coaching Accreditation Scheme) like the way Judo coaches require
if they are to be taken seriously. I know this opens a whole new
can of worms for BJJ such as having to come up with a structured
grading system etc. How do you guys feel about that, Dutch Law?
JohnnyS? Elvis?

gakami - I am a big fan of that, but BJJ would not need a more structured grading system, I beleive. To do so would be asking for trouble. Hockey, Soccer and cricket dont have structured belt syllabus' yet NCAS has succesful coaching accreditation programs for those sports.

The only problem with the NCAS courses is that they attract naive "experts", someone does an NCAS Level 1 & 2 course and looks like they know what they are doing when they may not. Other coaches, such as 4 times hockey olympian and womens hockey double olympic gold medal winning coach Ric Charlesworth, were reputedly simply given their Grade 3's so that it was not embarressing for NCAS.

ah shit i forgot all about that DJV, i was thinking in line of Judo's
NCAS certifications. I'll check on the ASC website.

Ok for starters:


Recognised organisations are those that are accepted as the main
body taking responsibility for the development of that sport
in Australia. There should be no dispute that the
organisation is the pre-eminent body responsible for
developing the sport in Australia.


The following criteria apply in determining whether an
organisation may be eligible for recognition from the

  • the activity must meet the Commission's definition of 'sport'

  • the organisation must be able to satisfy the Commission that it

    the pre-eminent organisation taking responsibility for the
    development of that sport in Australia

  • the organisation has been an incorporated association or
    company for a minimum of three years

  • the organisation has branches or affiliated state associations in

    at least four states/territories (ice sports in three states; snow
    sports in one state)

  • the organisation produces annual audited financial statements
    and annual reports and copies have been provided to the
    Commission for the past three years

  • the organisation has an operable and current three-year (or
    longer) strategic plan that addresses all aspects of the
    sport (including issues relating to access and equity)

  • the organisation has a doping policy consistent with the
    Commission's doping policy or with the doping policy of
    the international sports federation (IF) responsible for the

  • the organisation's IF is affiliated to the General Association of

    International Sports Federations (GAISF) or the International
    Olympic Committee (IOC) or the sport must have been
    played in Australia for more than 75 years involving high
    participation numbers, and

  • the organisation conducts annually, regional and/or state, and
    national, championships in open and/or age groups, as
    deemed appropriate for the sport ('national
    championships' includes national leagues controlled by the
    National Sporting Organisation (NSO)).

There should be no competing claims on the organisation's status
as the genuine national sporting organisation. 

I think these are steps in the right direction. The Machado Academies here already have a standardised grading system. Also, I know with our club we've already begun getting Coaching accreditation. Anthony has completed a level 4 Coach accreditation with the goal of all instructors completing the course.

These steps will also assist with improving the insurance situation that is faced out there. Once all the clubs are under a unified Organisation and have coaching accreditation they will more likely be insured. Though, to make it more effective it needs to be done across the board with all Martial Arts.

There's alot going on in the background.


gakami's work is good, now we see the magnitude of the problem :-)

"including issues relating to access and equity" - ouch

"no competing claims on the organisation's status as the genuine national sporting organisation" - ouch, ouch

"produces annual audited financial statements and annual reports ..." - ouch, ouch, ouch

"There should be no dispute that the organisation is the pre-eminent body responsible for developing the sport in Australia." - ouch, ouch, ouch, ouch

Elvis can I email you, I need some advice about a couple of things.

Is it easier to reach you via your sinosic-perosh website, or your elvissinosic website?

..or would the stalkelvis website guy be able to track you down much faster?

Just email me direct at


Thanks Elvis, you got mail.

... & now 4 the detail...

oi you're here too? what detail?

No details, nothing to see people, please move along...


moves along

stops and scrathes head then gets distracted 'cos pizza is at the door

"hmmmmmm pizza"

"...NCAS courses is that they attract naive "experts", someone does an NCAS Level 1 & 2 course and looks like they know what they are doing when they may not. Other coaches.."

The NCAS courses and accreditation doesn't g'tee a coach is "Good" rather "Accredited". Accreditation means that the individual is capable of completing/displaying all those skills required (as a minimum) to be a good coach, as to whether they actually apply such learnings is really up to the individual.

I cannot recall what exactly I had to do to get my NCAS L1 Judo Accreditation but it did require that I had my Brown Belt from the JFA (which takes a number of years to earn), had St Johns-style medical training, passed some technical skills/understanding written tests, completed a few weekends of 'coaching specific' seminars (e.g., duty of care, legal + moral responsibility, structured training plans etc) and 30(?) hours of coaching while being mentored by an existing L1 - it was all a few years ago now.

A lot of those things taught weren't Judo specific but IMHO are valuable for both the would-be coach and his subsequent students. I wonder if the Australian Wrestling Federation (if there is one) has NCAS-style coaching courses that people could leverage off? What about the Judo NCAS courses... I think I recall reading that they are run each six months or so...

Dutch Law - I am a fan of the NCAS, but you have to put it in perspective, thats all. If Judo limits its Level 1's to Brown Belt and above then they have guaranteed a minimum quality of pre-existing knowledge as well, which is great. But I know for a fact it does not happen in other sports at Level 1.

Also wrt to BJJ specifically, if we applied the brown belt rule there would only be 20-30 people in Australia with the belt grading high enough to get a basic level 1!