I was watching the Gillete Friday Night Fights flashback at the beginning of Gatti vs Ward II and I was wondering - in your opinion what order do these fighters belong in:
Robinson(as a MW only), LaMotta, Zale, Graziano, Basillio, Fullmer, DeMarco, Cerdan, ...
1] Robinson
2] LaMotta
3] Zale
4] Graziano
the rest are too close to call. LaMotta and Graziano
signed to fight, but Graziano pulled out. He claimed
he had a busted hand, but his mob managers
wanted to punish LaMotta and deny him a big
payday. Would have been a good brawl.
Modern greats include Monzon and Hagler.
No one around today could have come close to
them -- not Hopkins, Trinidad, whomever.
Modern greats include Monzon and Hagler.
No one around today could have come close to
them -- not Hopkins, Trinidad, whomever.
I could definately see Hopkins competing with any of the names mentioned above.
Hopkins could hang with those guys; Trinidad's power would make him a threat but he didn't have enough of a track record at middleweight to judge him properly.
I agree. Hopkins could hang with anyone, anytime.
antijockrider is correct, the three guys that beat hagler were all speed guys. and noone is faster than roy was at that weight. add in the fact that roy was crushing guys at middleweight andthis is a very tough matchup for hagler. a faster guy with power. ro takes this one
Thanks, Martin. I have seen footage of these guys on ESPN Classic fighting each other but I never paid close attention to the exact dates or what weight (welter vs middle) the fights were held at - that is why I don't have a real good idea on my own ranking of them.
I figured that Robinson was #1 even at middle since he almost defeated Joey Maxim at LHW but I didn't know that Cerdan was that good. I only saw a couple of highlights of Cerdan - not even whole rounds!
Martin, even though Graziano was a little bigger, would you compare him in lb for lb style and skill to Arturo Gatti.
Also are there any similarities that you see in certain guys from the Gillette FNF era to specific fighters from the current bunch?
double post edit
My top five middleweights of all time.
1) Harry Greb
2) Mickey Walker
3) Ray Robinson
4) Carlos Monzon
5) Marcel Cerdan
I just read Mickey Walker's autobiography. It's an interesting read.
Based upon the names that were initially submitted:
(1)Robinson: No Brainer
(2) Cerdan: Cerdan will always be difficult to properly assess due to the fact that almost all of his fights took place in Europe and very few are available on tape.
(3) Zale: Most people will obviously place Lamotta a head of Zale in their historical standings, but I have always felt that Zale was greatly underrated as a fighter while Lamotta has been slightly overrated as a result of "Raging Bull" and the fact that he was the first guy to tag Robinson with a "L". People forget that Zale's classic fights with Graziano took place after Zale's prime.
(4) Lamotta: See above
(5)Fulmer: Akward, strong as a bull, and possessed one of the better chins in middleweight history. Also, he stopped Basilio twice.
(6)Basilio: Tough, skilled & highly determined, but also vastly undersized as a middleweight(5'6).Basilio lost as a middleweight to Fulmer, Paul Pender, and an aged Ray Robinson.He merits placement over DeMarco based upon the fact that he stopped DeMarco twice.
It would have been interesting to hear people's assessment of Randy Turpin along with these other great names from his era.
Most people forget that Graziano, even though over
the hill, scored a knockdown against Ray
Robinson. The guy could really hit like a mule.
Whitebelt: yes, you're right. on film the knockdown
looked like a slip or a push, but Robinson was very
honest and said that it was a clean knockdown. He
said Graziano was one of the fiercest fighters he
ever fought. Robinson said he couldn't believe the
pent up ferocity Graziano possessed.
Zale and LaMotta would have been a good one.