re: One Shot Stops...

There has been much discussion related to the stopping power of handgun bullets. Stories of 9mms failing to cause enough damage, stories of .45 ACPs failing to penetrate to the vitals... stories of .223 bullets being poodle shooters, big guys taking 6 .357 magnums to the chest and then killing the good guy with a .22LR and so on.

Nothing we can carry is a guaranteed stopper. This is why you shoot and repeat as necessary until the threat is gone. Shot placement is key.

A good illustration is this...

The Earth should have a pretty good One Shot Stop if it were a bullet and a skydiver (without parachute) were the target. Here, the Earth would be a 502,239,819 caliber dirt/water jacketed bullet moving at roughly 250fps (terminal velocity of skydiver).

Even when falling out of a plane, people have survived, albiet very rarely.

Nothing that we can carry will give a guaranteed one stop shot every time.


The 9mm is still better than the 45.

LOL @ TKDFighter trolling...



nothing fades the 500 Magnum

I'm sorry, bu that analogy is garbage, it would be a more acurate representation of the effects of non penetrating rounds (bean bags rubber bullets).

There are plenty of things that will definetly 1 shot stop with an average COM hit on an unarmoured target, the ones who live 'cause the round skips of the sternum (or other fluke) are the lucky ones.

The point of going for the cente of the body is not only to disrupt the vital organs, but the shockwave which travels through the body affects the spinal column, making you fall down.

Even a .22 passing within 2 inches of the spinal cord is enough to cause neural shock, albeit less than a larger round would.

All this being said, would neve try and stop someone with only 1 shot, 'cept maybe with a shotgun or Barret.

Before you call my analogy boolsheet make sure understand what I say. reread second paragraph. What that imply?The point of going for the cente of the body is not only to disrupt the vital organs, but the shockwave which travels through the body affects the spinal column, making you fall down. lol (truly)... this is just the tip of the iceberg related to "shock." (edited, found a better link written by a prof of Animal phys at harvard) here is a little more reading. Again... the reason why I posted this... basic terms:People say X caliber is a better "stopper" than caliber Y. In doing this, they frequently cite "caliber X didn't cause a stop in this case!" and reference an actual shooting. Then person with caliber X gets hot and heavy. My post was to address that and do so in a HUMOROUS manner (I'm not a comedian so this was a stretch). If you really want to get picky you could say..."I'll bet you that everyone that fell out of a plane couldn't have got up and started shooting! Sure they survived, but they weren't a threat afterwards! Technically that IS a one shot stop.";)cheers

OK, I was being odd (normal for me), sorry.

By shock, I meant the direct shock to the spinal column, not systemic shock from the outlying nerves.

cheers man, thanks for the comments

I agree a .22LR can be lethal... but at the same time they aren't known as good stoppers unless you can ensure a surgical hit. That is why some counter "you can kill with a .22 but would you feel comfortable carrying one?"

krept is correct. I KNEW is was a "Better than nothing" gun. I mainly had it for historical interest.


Say you consistently practice, for example, several hundred rounds every weekend, for a couple of years, and you get hit, if you're able to get off 1 good shot, you should be able to immediately follow-up with a couple more.

So I'm not clear why one should be overly concerned with 1 shot stops. Aren't the practice drills for good placement with multiple shots, using either hand?

Well, seems like a matter of economy. Would you rather have a round that (in theory) will stop an attacker with one shot as opposed to 2 or more?

Yes. The thing is... kind of like in striking... if you throw a big strike or take one shot and then take a picture (see what effect your attack has) it might create an opening for the other guy.

For example. Guy 1 pulls out gun (.22lr) guy 2 sees this and is well trained so he gets the first shot off in the kill zone. As this happens, guy 1 shoots and hits guy 2 in abdomen. Guy one with the .22LR is dead before he hits the ground. Guy 2 ends up in the hospital, has a perforated intestine and dies three days later. Nobody wins.

T0ki is spot on as well... you should always carry the most powerful package that you can hit fast and accurately with. If you need to shoot from hard cover at someone that is behind hard cover as well, you want to make every shot count because you might get only one. This is probably the best reason to have a bullet/caliber combo that has a high OSS (if you can shoot it well). At the same time this situation plays right into the full-capacity crowd's hands... wouldn't you want more cartridges at hand? If we are using the example of a big bad guy coming right at you on top of you this is when you want multiple COM shots that you might not be able to have in a "gunfight."

Even if you have a powerful caliber but you choose a crappy bullet for the job, it wouldn't be as effective as a premium bullet from a less powerful platform. E.g. a hardcast .44 Magnum (or .45 FMJ or 200gr 10mm hunting bullet, etc) with go right through, but a 124gr 9mm +P Hydrashok would almost assuredly do at least the same amount of damage in a much more controllable package.

Some people may think that the power of a .357 10mm or .45 is the minimum baseline, but they frequently forget about the most important part - rapid and accurate shot placement. No doubt if you shoot hundreds of rounds a weekend for even a year you will be very formidable. A fast .22 to the eye should have much more effect than a .308 to the leg.

krept, you're very right about the bullet being a big factor in stopping power. See my last post on the caliber thread to read the sad story of the Corbons.

Everybody I've read so far has been pretty much on target (bad pun) with their thoughts IMO. There is no magic round or caliber that will put a person down everytime. It's also very hard to compare actual live data since there are so many factors involved in firearm events. The best caliber is the one you can quick dump into your target at range. I've always been told that any gun/caliber you can empty into a human silhouette as fast, and accurately, as you can at 30 feet is one that you can/should carry for SD.

This was from the other thread... An unfortunate, but true, story about the effectiveness of Corbon bullets. My friend carries his Glock 33 in .357 sig caliber. He uses Corbon bullets in it. On march 23 he somehow shot himself in the right side of his chest. From less than his own arm's reach away, there was no exit wound, and no bones struck directly. The bullets passed inbetween, grazing off of his ribs in the process and cracking two of them, then effectively exploded inside his body. He was lifelined to a hospital, where a good portion of his lung was removed. One of the bullet fragments missed his pulminary artery by one millimeter according to the doctor. Those Corbons are monsters, and kept him in the hospital until this last friday. He's VERY lucky to be alive.Wow, glad he survived. That is truly a tough guy there. Corbon makes several different lines of ammunition based on what type of threat you perceive and I would be interested in what he chose.For example, here is a great illustration of the frequently maligned Glaser line... people rip into it because it is a high expansion/low penetration round... (warning) graphic arm shot same wound x-ray This is the effect of hedging your bullets way way over on the side of expansion. At the same time... this wound nullified the threat (did it do it's job?).Doubtless if this was a COM or head shot it would be lights out. I still like to hedge my bets more on the side of penetration than rapidly fragmenting rounds like Glasers. Word has it that RCBD's current ammo is the cat's meow and the guy that makes it (Roscoe) can dial it in to expand like this yet still penetrate body armor. Whoa. I'm sticking with bonded core bullets for the time being, however.cheers

As I said initially, the 9mm is still better than the 45. ;-)

like anything, practice is important. I carry a 1911 in 45.
You should be able to draw and douple tap someone in under 2 seconds. This is not super fast, its something everyone can do with a little practice.

But shot placement is important, and like Wyatt Earp said, in a shootout take you time, in a hurry.

I still feel the 45 is the better choice for SD....

aka the 9mm SUCKS!!!!!! :O)

*for the sarcasm impaired, no this was not a shot at teh 9mm's effectiveness, I just prefer the 45 ACP

In actual gunfight data, the 230gr Federal Hydra Shok in 45 ACP has a 94-96 percent one-stop rate.

Source? Ayoob and pals.

TOki, it is clearly up to you and me to educate the unwashed masses about the 45 :o)

I carry 230 gr federal hydrashocks, how about you?

The same!