Re-watching cyborg vs Tonya

I see nothing but 2 completely opposite points of view on this upcoming fight,either holly gonna smash with counters, or cyborg gonna sleep this bitch and she won't wakeup for days,there Is no in between with this fight lol,no "well you know really anyone can take this fight,I'll respect both the winner and the loser,but the real winners are the fans for getting this fight (which is true no matter how gay it sounds,this fight is dope af).

So watching the Tonya vs cyborg fight on my dvr,and took away a few things after seeing it again and figured I would post about it,I tried to be unbiased and take away pros and cons for cyborg,if you think I should do this with holly as well let me know..

Pros-cyborg was extremely patient in this fight,there was many times (even with the opening strikes) where she could have rushed in when she staggered Tonya and tried to get the finish but she just hung back and picked her shots.
-she had a game plan and followed it very closley. She knew tonya is very tough and likleyw would be harder to put out then her previous opponents.the game plan,to me at least, looked like it was to pepper her all over the body with 50% power to weaken Tonya and then once it was clear she was breaking down heavy to go for the finish. She was throwing jab to low kick to the lead leg over and over,then also jab,body hook to overhand or head kick.
- she has had noticeable Improvements since training with Jason parillo,and in the fight it showed big time,her striking was a lot more accurate and she knew the difference of when to throw softer shots and when to turn it up,and then bring the power lower again,also noticed that her foot work looked great in this fight,she was setting traps and cutting off exits for tonya,constantly backing her up by using her footwork and not just pushing forward like she used to do,bully movement basically.
- her clinch is arguably her best skill set,next to her striking and power, but her clinch defense was on point as well,tonya was trying to use the clinch to open up opportunities for big strikes but cyborg was shutting her down very fast after being tied up and also reverse dominate positions.
-going to the body and legs a lot more in this fight,and the shots were clean,not rushed.
-her grappling defense was looking really good, tonya got 2 takedowns,poaaibly 3? and each time cyborg was able to use tonyas momentum against her and get right back up.
-her work against the cage was excellent,not allowing tonya to escape while not getting tunnel vision like she used to,before she would get her opponents to the cage and then just start unloading,in this fight she would get her back to the cage and would throw combos but when she would see tonya start to try and get out to the left or right,she would reset her feet and block tonya exit.


Now for the cons,just so I'm not being biased,as a cyborg fan of course I want her to beat holly, admittedly there were not more than a couple things Tonya was able to do good against cyborg so I will throw in things I've seen in the past 5 cyborg fights as well.

Cons- it only happened 2 times,but when Tonya backed cyborg up cris looked very uncomfortable and moved straight back and also when she did start to exit to the side she did it very sloppy, both a big no no against high level striker like holm..
- tonya was able to land some crisp jabs on cyborg because cyborg always is willing to take 2 shots to land one, but this time tonya was able to get off a few solid jabs without cris being able to walk thru and counter.which brings me to my next point..
- a few times in this fight and previous fghts,cyborg backed up straight with her CHIN UP, she's gotten better at head movement,but still leaves her Chin up a lot of times in a fight. Holly can def. Capitalize on this
-cris is very strong in the clinch,also very good technique in the clinch,but she also leaves openings for trip takedown when she's trying to open her opponents up for strikes,I know holly won't be looking for take downs but I'm just pointing that out.
- when cyborg throws kicks sometimes she telegraphs for a split second before,not always,but occasionally she shifts her weight to the foot shes about to use and lifts her heel,then sets it bsck down and then a second later throws the kick she did this a few times against evinger and she caught the kicks. Holly will def. See those telegraphed kicks and counter with a hard shot.
- and finally cyborg leaves her left side exposed when throwing her overhand,more so than normal, there is always gonna be a pretty sizeable open spot when someone throws an overhand,particularly yhe uppercut is a devistating counter to an overhand,but half the time cyborg leaves herself over exposed during and after throwing it,she let's her hand drop all the way to her waist before bringing it back up,also her jab,occasionally she will drop her other hand a little to low,about halfway down her neck,which could be HUGE trouble if cris does these two things and holly makes a read on it and starts timing it for a big counter.

I know that is an incredible amount to read but if you did read it please let me know what you think,if u don't read it cause its to long well then I can't blame you I guess lol. If you guys can think of anything else holly can expose on cyborg(actual tendencies or holes in her game,not your opinion or things that are not proven yet,like her cardio..we have not been able to see either way if her cardio can hold up or not) then write them in the replys,also if you know of any tendencies holly does that cyborg can use against her put those in your reply to,and like I said if it seems like people like this breakdown I'll do one on holly as well. Thanks fr reading and merry Christmas to everyone!!

Good breakdown. Let's not forget that Evinger was a replacement fighter who was clearly out of shape, fighting a division up, and relied on toughness and heart in that fight. She's nothing at all like Holly. 

I like Holly for the upset in this fight, but I'll be honest and say that save for the Ronda destruction, she's been an almost complete disappointment in MMA. Holly fought up to her skills exactly one time since turning pro in MMA, and it was against the best women's fighter there is/was. Holly wasn't just a boxer in a cage, she was a complete, brilliant MMA fighter on the night she destroyed Ronda. 

A lot of fans think of that fight as Holly's 'Buster Douglas Moment'. Buster was supposed to be the next Ali/Holmes, but he had trouble pulling the trigger as a pro early in his career. When he fought Tyson in Tokyo, Buster Douglas was everything he was hyped up to be—just like Holly was against Ronda. 

Then Buster got crushed by Holyfield and ate himself into a diabetic coma. 

Holly's subsequent MMA performances reek of 'gym fighter'. She's a skilled athlete, but she hasn't put it all together, before or since Ronda. She should be wrecking Meisha Tate on the feet, and not getting submitted like it's her first day grappling. Holly should be clowning these girls, and she's not. She looks like she's giving 30% and sparring. She even pulls her punches as if bouncing and coming up short on jabs (the Clay Guida method) are going to win her fights. 

So, Holly is either a one-night-wonder, or someone who fights to her competition. It shouldn't take more than 3 minutes to figure out which. 

This is the first time in a decade that Cyborg is fighting a girl close to her size with a pulse. Holly is probably her equal as an athlete, probably close in physical strength, but Holly is a better trained striker with better footwork and fundementals. I would not be a bit surprised if it's Holly ragdolling Cyborg in the clinch. 

Should be an interesting fight. 

Excellent breakdowns of Cyborgs and Holms last fights,,,should be VERY interesting for sure!

ttt

Bobby Lupo -


Good breakdown. Let's not forget that Evinger was a replacement fighter who was clearly out of shape, fighting a division up, and relied on toughness and heart in that fight. She's nothing at all like Holly. 



I like Holly for the upset in this fight, but I'll be honest and say that save for the Ronda destruction, she's been an almost complete disappointment in MMA. Holly fought up to her skills exactly one time since turning pro in MMA, and it was against the best women's fighter there is/was. Holly wasn't just a boxer in a cage, she was a complete, brilliant MMA fighter on the night she destroyed Ronda. 



A lot of fans think of that fight as Holly's 'Buster Douglas Moment'. Buster was supposed to be the next Ali/Holmes, but he had trouble pulling the trigger as a pro early in his career. When he fought Tyson in Tokyo, Buster Douglas was everything he was hyped up to be—just like Holly was against Ronda. 



Then Buster got crushed by Holyfield and ate himself into a diabetic coma. 



Holly's subsequent MMA performances reek of 'gym fighter'. She's a skilled athlete, but she hasn't put it all together, before or since Ronda. She should be wrecking Meisha Tate on the feet, and not getting submitted like it's her first day grappling. Holly should be clowning these girls, and she's not. She looks like she's giving 30% and sparring. She even pulls her punches as if bouncing and coming up short on jabs (the Clay Guida method) are going to win her fights. 



So, Holly is either a one-night-wonder, or someone who fights to her competition. It shouldn't take more than 3 minutes to figure out which. 



This is the first time in a decade that Cyborg is fighting a girl close to her size with a pulse. Holly is probably her equal as an athlete, probably close in physical strength, but Holly is a better trained striker with better footwork and fundementals. I would not be a bit surprised if it's Holly ragdolling Cyborg in the clinch. 



Should be an interesting fight. 

I agree with absolutely everything u said until right at the end bro lol. And yes if you look at just the facts she def. Has followed the same kind of path as buster Douglas in mma,she was on top of the world when she beat ronda,everyone was ready to see her in action again,and then it was like she wasn't the same fighter,gun shy,not as active as she was in that fight,sadly I think despite her potential it's because of rondas style that won her that fight in that exciting fashion,ronda was incredibly (almost comically) reckless just coming straight at holly with her chin up like a pissed off teenager and that was exactly what holly needed to shine. So I think she needs a reckless idiot in order to look that great again. otherwise she "hiiiii-yyaahhhs" her way thru the whole fight throwing fients and jabs that never hit the target. old cyborg would probably get destroyed by rushing at holly throwing looping punches,but cyborgs last few fights have shown that's not the fighter that is going to show up on fight night. Also like I said the only point I didn't agree with you is the clinch part,I believe that is cyborgs greatest tool in her arsenal and holly not gonna be able to equal or better her in that area,but that's the beauty of mma and why we watch,is because that's just my opinion and we won't know until fight night lol.

Andersons from the matrix -
Bobby Lupo -


Good breakdown. Let's not forget that Evinger was a replacement fighter who was clearly out of shape, fighting a division up, and relied on toughness and heart in that fight. She's nothing at all like Holly. 



I like Holly for the upset in this fight, but I'll be honest and say that save for the Ronda destruction, she's been an almost complete disappointment in MMA. Holly fought up to her skills exactly one time since turning pro in MMA, and it was against the best women's fighter there is/was. Holly wasn't just a boxer in a cage, she was a complete, brilliant MMA fighter on the night she destroyed Ronda. 



A lot of fans think of that fight as Holly's 'Buster Douglas Moment'. Buster was supposed to be the next Ali/Holmes, but he had trouble pulling the trigger as a pro early in his career. When he fought Tyson in Tokyo, Buster Douglas was everything he was hyped up to be—just like Holly was against Ronda. 



Then Buster got crushed by Holyfield and ate himself into a diabetic coma. 



Holly's subsequent MMA performances reek of 'gym fighter'. She's a skilled athlete, but she hasn't put it all together, before or since Ronda. She should be wrecking Meisha Tate on the feet, and not getting submitted like it's her first day grappling. Holly should be clowning these girls, and she's not. She looks like she's giving 30% and sparring. She even pulls her punches as if bouncing and coming up short on jabs (the Clay Guida method) are going to win her fights. 



So, Holly is either a one-night-wonder, or someone who fights to her competition. It shouldn't take more than 3 minutes to figure out which. 



This is the first time in a decade that Cyborg is fighting a girl close to her size with a pulse. Holly is probably her equal as an athlete, probably close in physical strength, but Holly is a better trained striker with better footwork and fundementals. I would not be a bit surprised if it's Holly ragdolling Cyborg in the clinch. 



Should be an interesting fight. 

I agree with absolutely everything u said until right at the end bro lol. And yes if you look at just the facts she def. Has followed the same kind of path as buster Douglas in mma,she was on top of the world when she beat ronda,everyone was ready to see her in action again,and then it was like she wasn't the same fighter,gun shy,not as active as she was in that fight,sadly I think despite her potential it's because of rondas style that won her that fight in that exciting fashion,ronda was incredibly (almost comically) reckless just coming straight at holly with her chin up like a pissed off teenager and that was exactly what holly needed to shine. So I think she needs a reckless idiot in order to look that great again. otherwise she "hiiiii-yyaahhhs" her way thru the whole fight throwing fients and jabs that never hit the target. old cyborg would probably get destroyed by rushing at holly throwing looping punches,but cyborgs last few fights have shown that's not the fighter that is going to show up on fight night. Also like I said the only point I didn't agree with you is the clinch part,I believe that is cyborgs greatest tool in her arsenal and holly not gonna be able to equal or better her in that area,but that's the beauty of mma and why we watch,is because that's just my opinion and we won't know until fight night lol.

This. It's not that Holly was "on point" the night she fought Ronda but more to do with styles make fights. Same way she wrecked Betch, because Ronda and Betch have nothing for Holly style wise. Holly was beating Meisha 4 rounds to 0 (imo) but has never learned to be comfortable on the ground or atleast in competition setting. Anyways good breakdown and good discussion guys, I'm really looking forward to this fight too!

Get A Grip Dude -


Good analysis, OP.

Thanks brother i appreciate it

Cyborg is definitely beatable. Now more than ever with USADA and age.

Great thread.

WMMA really does give us some awesome fights.

NeganAndersdottir -

Cyborg is definitely beatable. Now more than ever with USADA and age.

Megan lost the first round to Charmaine Tweet. Go figure.

Excellent breakdown.

Holly’s style is the same in boxing and MMA. She uses her excellent footwork and cardio to counter and patiently pick her opponent apart. The fact that she’s a southpaw is also a huge advantage.

Problem is this is MMA and Cyborg is VERY dangerous everywhere: on her feet, in the clinch, on the ground.

Holly is a lot like Machida. She won’t engage, nor she will brawl. She won’t expose herself.

BUT she never fought anyone in MMA with Cyborg’s arsenal. That will deter Holly’s offense. Cyborg can knock her out, can take her down, can submit her. She is being very precise with her shots. How willl Holly react after the first bomb lands?

Holly is clinchable. Cyborg will use elbows, knees, punches and kicks, and Holly will be defending takedowns.

It’s an interesting fight, but Cyborg got more tools at her disposal and more ways to win.

Of course Holly is dangerous, and can win too. But I see Cyborg winning more often than not.

I’ve been saying for a while that cyborg has some flaws that holly could capitalize on and people have been looking at me like I have 3 heads.

JustAnotherMMAFan -

Excellent breakdown.

Holly’s style is the same in boxing and MMA. She uses her excellent footwork and cardio to counter and patiently pick her opponent apart. The fact that she’s a southpaw is also a huge advantage.

Problem is this is MMA and Cyborg is VERY dangerous everywhere: on her feet, in the clinch, on the ground.

Holly is a lot like Machida. She won’t engage, nor she will brawl. She won’t expose herself.

BUT she never fought anyone in MMA with Cyborg’s arsenal. That will deter Holly’s offense. Cyborg can knock her out, can take her down, can submit her. She is being very precise with her shots. How willl Holly react after the first bomb lands?

Holly is clinchable. Cyborg will use elbows, knees, punches and kicks, and Holly will be defending takedowns.

It’s an interesting fight, but Cyborg got more tools at her disposal and more ways to win.

Of course Holly is dangerous, and can win too. But I see Cyborg winning more often than not.

Holy got hit and wobbled in the Ronda and Miesha fights didnt she? She doesnt seem to have an iron chin either. Of course Cyborg did lose that MT fight and the fight against Gina was super clumsy at times as well, but it was ages ago. 

NeganAndersdottir -

Cyborg is definitely beatable. Now more than ever with USADA and age.

Megan anderson...just stop dude. It's getting ridiculous,until u get in that cage and fight cyborg u cannot talk any shit. And u can't bring up usada either,she failed 1 test in 2011. Get over it.

JustAnotherMMAFan -

Excellent breakdown.

Holly’s style is the same in boxing and MMA. She uses her excellent footwork and cardio to counter and patiently pick her opponent apart. The fact that she’s a southpaw is also a huge advantage.

Problem is this is MMA and Cyborg is VERY dangerous everywhere: on her feet, in the clinch, on the ground.

Holly is a lot like Machida. She won’t engage, nor she will brawl. She won’t expose herself.

BUT she never fought anyone in MMA with Cyborg’s arsenal. That will deter Holly’s offense. Cyborg can knock her out, can take her down, can submit her. She is being very precise with her shots. How willl Holly react after the first bomb lands?

Holly is clinchable. Cyborg will use elbows, knees, punches and kicks, and Holly will be defending takedowns.

It’s an interesting fight, but Cyborg got more tools at her disposal and more ways to win.

Of course Holly is dangerous, and can win too. But I see Cyborg winning more often than not.

Thanks for the compliment bro,and you just hit the nail on the head man,cyborg has more tools at her disposal, and incredible comparison to machida dude,can't believe I didn't think about that but it's exactly the same thing with both of them,great eye.

Non N00B -
JustAnotherMMAFan -

Excellent breakdown.

Holly’s style is the same in boxing and MMA. She uses her excellent footwork and cardio to counter and patiently pick her opponent apart. The fact that she’s a southpaw is also a huge advantage.

Problem is this is MMA and Cyborg is VERY dangerous everywhere: on her feet, in the clinch, on the ground.

Holly is a lot like Machida. She won’t engage, nor she will brawl. She won’t expose herself.

BUT she never fought anyone in MMA with Cyborg’s arsenal. That will deter Holly’s offense. Cyborg can knock her out, can take her down, can submit her. She is being very precise with her shots. How willl Holly react after the first bomb lands?

Holly is clinchable. Cyborg will use elbows, knees, punches and kicks, and Holly will be defending takedowns.

It’s an interesting fight, but Cyborg got more tools at her disposal and more ways to win.

Of course Holly is dangerous, and can win too. But I see Cyborg winning more often than not.

Holy got hit and wobbled in the Ronda and Miesha fights didnt she? She doesnt seem to have an iron chin either. Of course Cyborg did lose that MT fight and the fight against Gina was super clumsy at times as well, but it was ages ago. 

Yes she did,and also got wobbled by germaine 3 times,so no I wouldn't say she has an iron chin and I'm excited to see how she deals with cris' power for sure.

Rudi -

I’ve been saying for a while that cyborg has some flaws that holly could capitalize on and people have been looking at me like I have 3 heads.

No man,u have a point,she has flaws and weaknesses just like any fighter and I pointed some out, the problem is,can holly capitalize on them while dealing with cyborgs power,and now also her technique,she's got a chance if she exploits some of those holes,but she has to actually do it in the fight,we shall see my friend!!!

AnericanFootball -
Gandhi -
Andersons from the matrix -
Bobby Lupo -


Good breakdown. Let's not forget that Evinger was a replacement fighter who was clearly out of shape, fighting a division up, and relied on toughness and heart in that fight. She's nothing at all like Holly. 



I like Holly for the upset in this fight, but I'll be honest and say that save for the Ronda destruction, she's been an almost complete disappointment in MMA. Holly fought up to her skills exactly one time since turning pro in MMA, and it was against the best women's fighter there is/was. Holly wasn't just a boxer in a cage, she was a complete, brilliant MMA fighter on the night she destroyed Ronda. 



A lot of fans think of that fight as Holly's 'Buster Douglas Moment'. Buster was supposed to be the next Ali/Holmes, but he had trouble pulling the trigger as a pro early in his career. When he fought Tyson in Tokyo, Buster Douglas was everything he was hyped up to be—just like Holly was against Ronda. 



Then Buster got crushed by Holyfield and ate himself into a diabetic coma. 



Holly's subsequent MMA performances reek of 'gym fighter'. She's a skilled athlete, but she hasn't put it all together, before or since Ronda. She should be wrecking Meisha Tate on the feet, and not getting submitted like it's her first day grappling. Holly should be clowning these girls, and she's not. She looks like she's giving 30% and sparring. She even pulls her punches as if bouncing and coming up short on jabs (the Clay Guida method) are going to win her fights. 



So, Holly is either a one-night-wonder, or someone who fights to her competition. It shouldn't take more than 3 minutes to figure out which. 



This is the first time in a decade that Cyborg is fighting a girl close to her size with a pulse. Holly is probably her equal as an athlete, probably close in physical strength, but Holly is a better trained striker with better footwork and fundementals. I would not be a bit surprised if it's Holly ragdolling Cyborg in the clinch. 



Should be an interesting fight. 

I agree with absolutely everything u said until right at the end bro lol. And yes if you look at just the facts she def. Has followed the same kind of path as buster Douglas in mma,she was on top of the world when she beat ronda,everyone was ready to see her in action again,and then it was like she wasn't the same fighter,gun shy,not as active as she was in that fight,sadly I think despite her potential it's because of rondas style that won her that fight in that exciting fashion,ronda was incredibly (almost comically) reckless just coming straight at holly with her chin up like a pissed off teenager and that was exactly what holly needed to shine. So I think she needs a reckless idiot in order to look that great again. otherwise she "hiiiii-yyaahhhs" her way thru the whole fight throwing fients and jabs that never hit the target. old cyborg would probably get destroyed by rushing at holly throwing looping punches,but cyborgs last few fights have shown that's not the fighter that is going to show up on fight night. Also like I said the only point I didn't agree with you is the clinch part,I believe that is cyborgs greatest tool in her arsenal and holly not gonna be able to equal or better her in that area,but that's the beauty of mma and why we watch,is because that's just my opinion and we won't know until fight night lol.

This. It's not that Holly was "on point" the night she fought Ronda but more to do with styles make fights. Same way she wrecked Betch, because Ronda and Betch have nothing for Holly style wise. Holly was beating Meisha 4 rounds to 0 (imo) but has never learned to be comfortable on the ground or atleast in competition setting. Anyways good breakdown and good discussion guys, I'm really looking forward to this fight too!

Meisha is also really good on the ground. That big titted bitch is overlooked so much it's crazy. 

Lol....I was gonna reply with a statement about mieshas skill as a fighter,but when I read "big tittied bitch" all I could picture was miesha from the espn body mag...Jesus Christ Carraway was such a fagget but gotta give Tha little homo-sapien his props,he gets to slide into that woman every night....err...correction,did,I forgot miesha pulled her head out of her ass and realized she could have any dude she wanted,fuck man,she's even in my girlfriends top 5 freebies! 4 men and meisha tate lol.

NeganAndersdottir -

Cyborg is definitely beatable. Now more than ever with USADA and age.

signed

Gandhi -
Andersons from the matrix -
Bobby Lupo -


Good breakdown. Let's not forget that Evinger was a replacement fighter who was clearly out of shape, fighting a division up, and relied on toughness and heart in that fight. She's nothing at all like Holly. 



I like Holly for the upset in this fight, but I'll be honest and say that save for the Ronda destruction, she's been an almost complete disappointment in MMA. Holly fought up to her skills exactly one time since turning pro in MMA, and it was against the best women's fighter there is/was. Holly wasn't just a boxer in a cage, she was a complete, brilliant MMA fighter on the night she destroyed Ronda. 



A lot of fans think of that fight as Holly's 'Buster Douglas Moment'. Buster was supposed to be the next Ali/Holmes, but he had trouble pulling the trigger as a pro early in his career. When he fought Tyson in Tokyo, Buster Douglas was everything he was hyped up to be—just like Holly was against Ronda. 



Then Buster got crushed by Holyfield and ate himself into a diabetic coma. 



Holly's subsequent MMA performances reek of 'gym fighter'. She's a skilled athlete, but she hasn't put it all together, before or since Ronda. She should be wrecking Meisha Tate on the feet, and not getting submitted like it's her first day grappling. Holly should be clowning these girls, and she's not. She looks like she's giving 30% and sparring. She even pulls her punches as if bouncing and coming up short on jabs (the Clay Guida method) are going to win her fights. 



So, Holly is either a one-night-wonder, or someone who fights to her competition. It shouldn't take more than 3 minutes to figure out which. 



This is the first time in a decade that Cyborg is fighting a girl close to her size with a pulse. Holly is probably her equal as an athlete, probably close in physical strength, but Holly is a better trained striker with better footwork and fundementals. I would not be a bit surprised if it's Holly ragdolling Cyborg in the clinch. 



Should be an interesting fight. 

I agree with absolutely everything u said until right at the end bro lol. And yes if you look at just the facts she def. Has followed the same kind of path as buster Douglas in mma,she was on top of the world when she beat ronda,everyone was ready to see her in action again,and then it was like she wasn't the same fighter,gun shy,not as active as she was in that fight,sadly I think despite her potential it's because of rondas style that won her that fight in that exciting fashion,ronda was incredibly (almost comically) reckless just coming straight at holly with her chin up like a pissed off teenager and that was exactly what holly needed to shine. So I think she needs a reckless idiot in order to look that great again. otherwise she "hiiiii-yyaahhhs" her way thru the whole fight throwing fients and jabs that never hit the target. old cyborg would probably get destroyed by rushing at holly throwing looping punches,but cyborgs last few fights have shown that's not the fighter that is going to show up on fight night. Also like I said the only point I didn't agree with you is the clinch part,I believe that is cyborgs greatest tool in her arsenal and holly not gonna be able to equal or better her in that area,but that's the beauty of mma and why we watch,is because that's just my opinion and we won't know until fight night lol.

This. It's not that Holly was "on point" the night she fought Ronda but more to do with styles make fights. Same way she wrecked Betch, because Ronda and Betch have nothing for Holly style wise. Holly was beating Meisha 4 rounds to 0 (imo) but has never learned to be comfortable on the ground or atleast in competition setting. Anyways good breakdown and good discussion guys, I'm really looking forward to this fight too!

How the fuck did you score the 2nd round of that Tate/Holm fight Cecil?