Really SCARED!

Wow. If this is the direction Christianity in the US is going, and Islam in much of the Middle East and north Afirca is also being radicalized- moderates from both sides will be stuck, Jews will be screwed no matter who wins (cause they aren't like such a group) and confirmed atheists will be decimated. If this is the fastest growing Church movement in the West and you combine it with radical Islam in the East- the inevitable clash is obvious, their no room for negotiation under this system. Further, all other minorities will have to hold their breath. One of the MANY reasons 1492 was the year of the Inquisition was that a generation of succesful Christian soldiers had been raised up to destroy that which rejects Jesus. After throwing out the Muslims, all these soldiers needed something to do, the King had to pay for his costly war, the Church had to re-emerge as a dominant player and Spain had to start playing on the world stage again. What to do? Use the soldiers to kill the Jews, give their money to the King to pay for stuff and let the Church take a percentage. These kids not only refuse to recognize Islam, they refuse to recognize Judaism, Hinduism, Bahai, Samaritans, Druze, Buddhists, Taoists, Shintoists and all the rest. What will become of the US?

MS

You think your scared now....wait until you relize Jesus is God and the new world order starts hunting down end time's saint's like yourself.

MS,

Did you watch the movie? Seems like you would at least do that before forming an opinion. Also the Jews have their crazy Zionists in Israel to complete the Triumvirate of world crazies so let's be fair here.

Ridge- yes of course we do. The movie isn't out in Canada yet (and except for Alberta and Sask. might not be released in the rest of the country).

Aaron- I've always said, with evidence of Jesus, I would believe. I have experienced evidence of G-d, not of Jesus. edit: and I'm primarily concerned about who these kids are going to vote into office and when they realize that Jews don't accept Jesus- what will they do to me and my freinds.

MS

Well they would pray for you, but why are you worried about it? If your God is real and Jesus is "just a nice guy who ran with the wrong crowd" then you should be kept safe? NO?

And your going to get your evidence buddy.

:)

I would say at least half of these kids will fall away from this movement when they become teenagers. This high intensity kind of stuff usually leads to burn out when they realize they are not fulfilled and unlike say a Muslim child whose entire culture may be steeped in this kind of radicalism a kid in the US or Canada will find all kinds of alternatives to this viewpoint.

MS, don't need to be scared. It is only one more idiotic cult.

Ridgeback,

Why do you label it radicalism?

It seems almost as if you're implying that revival and being on fire for Christ is a bad or abnormal thing.

Personally, I can't wait to see this film. I'm inspired by the thought that Christians are waking up and taking a stand to teach their children how to combat the secular movement.

From the trailer that group does not look like a fringe group to me but a regular bunch of pentecostals doing their thing.

Smileythai,

Well truth be told it is hard to tell from the limited footage exactly what is going on. I was accepting MS's premise that they are radical and even in that case I am far less worried about them than I would be about radical muslims say in Palestine or Lebanon or even in the UK.

I am personally not impressed with "being on fire for Jesus" because I have always seen those people burn out sooner or later and fall off the deep end sometimes. I don't believe that the work of the Spirit is expressed as emotionalism. If you like a metaphor I think being a coal bed for Jesus would be better. A steady faith will allow a person to grow roots and in turn really produce fruit. If you are hooked on the constant ups you won't endure through the dry spells and every Christian has dry spells.

I don't think that Christians should try to make non-Christians live by Christian standards of morality because without the Spirit they are not equipped to do it and it just breeds resentment anyway. I believe that many of these people would enforce Christian behavior on the secular world if given the power.

smileythai, what do you mean by "combat the secular movement"? I don't think I agree that there is a secular movement per se..there are many forms of secularism. One can be secularist in some respects but not in others.

Hawker- because when enough ppl. think in the way being portrayed, a violent event against minorities is a normal result (the Inquisition is merely a famous incident). And I have admitted that Jews have fundies numerous times. However, the mainstream does everything possible to marginalize them and even most Orthodox Jews reject their views.

Aaron- I've got my evidence- but this debate is not the point of this thread.

There is nothing wrong with having passion, but leaving no room for anyone to talk is wrong. To every one of these kids- I'm going to hell and I might be in league with Satan. To the kids born into the radical Islamic culture, no other option is given; the enemy is in league with the enemies of G-d and must be destroyed.

MS

Ridgeback, fair enough.

ChanceDuBois,

Secular movement= things of the world which stand to deceive/lead people away from Christ. Examples such as betrayal of family values, pro choice, homosexuality, eastern religions, and living a self-centered/self-righteous lifestyle.

SmileyThai,

As the Rev always says, the key is to forcefully bring the kingdom to this world but not through the use of the powers of this world.  In other words you try to change the hearts of your neighbors by how you show them love. 

I don't disagree about a cultural war.  I just don't think using political methods is the way to win it.  Its a heart matter and hearts don't change by political force.

I haven't seen the movie, so can only offer opinions based on the trailer and the synopsis. However, when the Jesus Camp guys say they're training to be "God's Army," I get the feeling they mean it in a figurative sense.

There's kind of a weird relationship between Evangelical Christians and Jews. After all, Evangelical Christians are probably among the most vocal supporters of Israel.

Of course, it's all related to end-time prophecy and the return of Jesus, but at a time when world opinion is overwhelmingly against Israel, I would think such support is important.

On a completely different level, the kids in the "Jesus Camp" movie totally creeped me out.

I see your point, and I really don't disagree, though I would hesitate to avoid any method(s) which bring people to Christ, so long as they come from the spirit and are scripturally sound.

As Christianity is being undermined more and more throughout this country, I would glady be the first person to join a united front of Christians to march on Washington DC in demand of the gov't restoring the Christian values this country was founded upon.

Now, we both know it(restoration) will never happen, though it might awaken the hearts of some/many and help win them to Christ. Regardless, it would be a political win/win situation.

But you're right, the fundamental path to winning souls to Christ comes through the heart by righteous witnessing/actions. People come willingly to Christ because they experience/realize the depth of Love our Father has for them/us.

smileythai, i think you are falling into the trap of defining things that you personally dislike as all being part of some secular movement. In reality there are a number of different strands of secularism but at the most basic level it is about being free from religious or spiritual qualities, not specifically Christian ones, in some sphere of life.

Some Islamic countries, for example Iran, are among the most non-secular in the world yet do not accept Christ. Likewise one can support secularism in public or private life and still accept Christ; secularism does not necessarily equate to atheism. It just means that its adherents do not use religion as the base for decision making in certain defined areas of their lives.

Secularism in science for example came a long time ago and was necessary, yet many scientists are religious and believe in god. Bringing religious belief into science leads to bad science as religious scientists mostly recognise. This is just one example. Others include secularism applied to medical ethics, moral questions, government etc. Secularism is definately not a unified code of belief and behaviour in the same way that religion is.

and I don't have a reason to be scared of that ^ ??

I think you do. There is no excuse for that kind of lunatic belief system in a rich, comfortable, free, western democracy, in my opinion.

It's more understandable in Iraq or Afghanistan (although not more correct)

You guys are being swayed by tricky editing. By the time half these kids are of voting age they will be out of this movement or they will simply forget to vote. Trust me I saw all kinds of kids come back from summer camp on fire for Jesus and a couple months later they were back to their normal selves. I saw kids who went to strict Christians schools go after the party life when they got out like they had missed everything. This simply is not comparable to Islamic indoctrination.

On a related note after the immigration marches earlier this year there is no indication that hispanics are voting in larger numbers than before. The truth is that this group has a very low voter turnout number overall.