I´ve just read on another thread:
Date: 21-Oct-03 09:37 PM
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
5219 Total Posts
"No reply from Comedian? I've given more material for him to ridicule. How can he resist?"
Catholics are masters of buildng up peoples self-esteem ;^) "
Actually, my mother, a non practicant catholic, were almost sucessfull on destroying my self-esteem. I´m glad I had courage enough to leave home before suiciding.
I know that the guilty feeling is reinforced a lot by catholics and other christian religions.
I am wondering if other religions, like budhism, judaism and others, also abuse from its power to diminish people´s self-esteem.
I am also wondering how much of it might be blamed upon the parents personalities and not the religions.
I´ve just read on another thread:
Let me get this straight...you mother was a non-practicing Catholic, and yet the Catholic faith (which you just said she didn't practice) is responsible for your low self-esteem? For lack of a better term, that's horseshit.
If anyone, your mother is responsible for your bad self-esteem.
If anything, my parents religion supported the development of my self esteem. Well thier understanding of it, especially at a very early age. You tell a child that God made them, knows how many hairs are on thier head, made them for something no one else can do, made them something unique and special to help the world, adn that they are every bit as good as everyone else, no matter what position they may find themselves in. I don't see how this, which is what I believe the bible teaches, destroys self esteem.
Im very glad you found the courage to leave home too, but that was your mother, not your mothers dead faith, that was to blame.
where in the bible does it say that women cannot be as spiritual as men. You have obviously never read the story of Ruth and Naomi before.
what religion should do is different from what always happens...
for example, look at the Catholic Church in the boston area...all it has done is destroy the self-esteem of those who practice it seriously...and im not talking about the abuse by priests...
more than any other point, the church makes sure that everyone knows that they arent good enough
thats because no one is good enough for Gods standard....if you think your good enough then that must mena your perfect and havent done anything wrong. Because thats what God standard is. There is nothing wrong with letting people know they are sinners, and I reject the notion that helping people understand that is equal to the destruction of thier self esteem. Im my opinion, that is how they are regenerated, by seeing thier sin, understand God can help them with it, and transcending it.
Bludhall, what is your understanding of the reason why women aren't permitted to become priests?
where in the bible does it say that women cannot be as spiritual as men. You have obviously never read the story of Ruth and Naomi before.No, you obviously haven't read The Woman's Bible. :-)http://www.undelete.org/library/library0041.html
but the religion never claims that. Not once. Not ever does the catholic church or any other christian church as part of doctrine claim that women are inferior to men. There are gender roles, yes. but the position is not indicitive of the important that person plays. Regardless, I think your understanding is limited to what you have seen in whatever organized sense and you do not understand the doctrinal position.
I suggest you read the story i am talking about. There are MANY stories that show great value that women have.
Mariam was a prohphetess Exo 15; Deborah was a prophetess Judges 4; Huldah the prophetess 2 kings 22; Neh 6 Noadiah was a prophetess; Again Anna was a prophetess in Luke 2; Acts 21...the same thing...
so as you can see the example here is far from that of one where women cannot serve the Lord
Though mentioned in jest, it is worth reading the aforementioned text (ie. The Woman's Bible). It was written by a leading women's rights campaigner towards the end of the 19th Century, and contains her comments on a whole bunch of Biblical verses. It's an interesting work from a historical point of view. It's also very short, so you can go through it very quickly.
Bludhall, you still haven't answered my question. What is your understanding of the underlying reason that women are not permitted to become priests?
Do you even know?
They were...take a look at Pauls mission trips, Read acts chapter 18...you'll see priscilla and aquilla both teaching someone who did not throughly understand the lords ways.
I don't understand why the catholic church does what it does, my intention is not to defend to critque anything they do. MY intention is to explain to you what the bible teaches. If you want to deal with institutional corruption, Im probably more likely to side with you than against.
gender is not a material thing, Its a relational thing.
you take a look at the storys, you'll find that many of these women stepped up when a man would not step up and took the role, or when there was no man available to do it.
well I cant answer about practices I dont believe in....but Id suggest that since your asking about preists that you tell StKolbe what your understanding of the reason is, and perhaps he can enlighten you into what the catholic/orthodox's churches tend to use as thier doctrines and why.
"thats because no one is good enough for Gods standard"
and who judges that standard? supposedly its god right? but who do we hear it from on earth, child-molesting priests? or how about the ones covering it up?
"Let me get this straight...you mother was a non-practicing Catholic, and yet the Catholic faith (which you just said she didn't practice) is responsible for your low self-esteem?"
Because despite the fact that as an adult she didn´t go to church anymore (except for wedding and baptism ceremonies), she was raised as catholic, studied in catholic schools, and believed in "mortal sins", and fears everything that might look as a sin. She prefers nowadays to believe that there is nothing, absolutely nothing, after death, because she doesn´t want to face her own shadow. Everything I did as a normal active child was considered wrong, so I was a sinner all the time, the bad seed. There were never any kind of compliment, good input, for the good things I might have done, because she didn´t want to stimulate "my" vanity.
What I mean is, I received all the bad concepts that may be derived from a twisted religion, and quite none of the blessings of the Gospel.
After leaving home I met the Spiritist Doctrin. For about the first five years I used to read the Gospel always thinking that I was a sinner and that my conscience was condemning me all the time - for things that I didn´t even know they existed (like the dirty questions a priest can do to a young boy in a confessionary). It took me some time to understand that the Gospel was a direction to be followed to improve my quality of life, not a judgement without defense.
I also know many people that became addicted to drugs, big liers and so on, because they had rigid "christian" parents.
I´d like to know if there is room for such bad behaviour in other religions too.
Donna, you really are blinded aren't you? YOUR MOTHER told you certain things. YOUR MOTHER treated you a certain way. YOUR MOTHER was responsible for the way you were raised. Stop looking for a scapegoat.
"and who judges that standard? supposedly its god right? but who do we hear it from on earth, child-molesting priests? or how about the ones covering it up?"
What's your point with this Tampon?
my point is that many people's self esteem and lives have been ruined by the corruption of power in the church. examples being the multitudes of children that were sexually abused by priests, the cardinals that covered up the scandals for over 40 years.
the church judges the word of god and dishes out the punnishment...yet the church itself has been riddled with scandal for at least the last half century...priests who have molested children would then lay their guilt upon their congregation...quite an abuse of power wouldnt you say?
of course there are those in the church who are not the bad seeds and who do a tremendous good. but i find it hard to have faith in a group who have a pretty poor track record in the last century alone
ND, you don´t need to call me blinded.
My mother raised me probably following the example she received on her own childhood. And I don´t think it was a good example at all.
Sorry about that Donna.
My point is that if your mother was a bad parent, that is not due to Catholicism. It's due to her being a bad parent.