Relson Gracie Seminar: Outstanding

My 2 cents:

As someone who's been a huge fan of Relson's since I paid him a visit at his school back in 2003, I can honestly say that I'm so glad Fats has experienced the man and his techniques for himself. I wrote a LONG thread about him when I first came back from Hawaii training with him, praising him, talking about what I learned, and I think it was poodollar who was talking about his street-jj, using elbows and shirt chokes.

I'm glad to see that the man has reached a greater audience, because he deserves it.

As for sharing his techniques...I myself don't want to share what I've learned.

A public forum is a strange place. At times it can be a fertile ground for learning...and most times it is a fertile ground for bias. You can share something that works for you, and some people may learn from it.

Sometimes you can share something, and it has worked a billion times for you, but if it's something that a forum has not experienced, it becomes "dead" or "obsolete." Experts come flying out of nowhere, talking about the virtues of this and that, psychologizing, sermonizing, and just being downright uncivil.

Then the discussion becomes less about learning from everyone, and more about preaching from a few "experts".

You start out sharing, trying to benefit your fellow-man, and you end up DEFENDING yourself and your knowledge.

I'm an old JKD-forum dog. It happens all the time on this forum.

If you want to learn what Relson taught, do what Fatbuddha and I did: save your money, wait for your schedule to free-up, then train with the man. You won't regret it.

I don't mean any hostility towards anybody on this forum, because I think most of you have emptied your cup, and really want to learn these techniques. Fami may decide to share, or poodollar or fats.

I'm just an old forum-dog that's seen too many of these types of discussions become a soap-box for others. That's why I don't want to discuss what I learned from him here.

4 Ranges

I see what you guys are saying but if you are content with keeping things to yourself and not speak of them on a public forum (which is your right) then why even mention you have something of value on a public forum in the first place? It doesn't make sense. I mean what is the damn point?!

It would have been better to not even have mention that you learned something of value from Relson on a public forum in the first place.

You want people not to try to "take" or "steal" from your experience and essentially have their own experience YET you also have the very nerve to "dangle" the your experience in everyones face.

Newflash!!!!! no one would even fr*kin "bother" to ask you about what Relson showed if you didn't make the EFFORT to "advertise" it nor make such a big deal about it!

Don't complain about the fire YOU started!

I have to agree with m.g.

For many of us forums like these are interesting opportunities to share techniques and training methods to each other. A way people can learn from each other even though they are in totally different places. I know that the probability of myself learning from Relson Gracie is close to 0%, seeing that I don't think there is a further away place in the world from my point of view.

I know that I have posted some amount of information pertaining to specific techniques and versions of techniques that are unknown to the bulk of the readers of this forum. I also belive some of what I have is different or even wrong from some of your perspectives. Should I have "kept my mouth shut"?

I honestly don't think so.

I feel that the way for each of us to improve is to share information. What if the Gracies would have kept what they know to themselves? What about Mr. Dan Inosanto? Think about it -- how much "martial arts" have improved now that JKD, MMA and other alphabet soups have developed and generally most styles are available for everyone to learn from. If this wouldn't be the case I believe we would all still be learning kata and pressure points!

And that, dear gentlemen, would be a sad state of affairs.

"I see what you guys are saying but if you are content with keeping things to yourself and not speak of them on a public forum (which is your right) then why even mention you have something of value on a public forum in the first place? It doesn't make sense. I mean what is the damn point?!"

All of this is coming from me telling Fat Buddha to ask Relson about the kimura defense when he took his private lesson. FB came on here and asked what would be good things to ask Relson, so I mentioned it and some other things. It was asked and answered, I didn't come here and say I know a secret move and I'm not telling or anything like that.

I was going to describe it, but to many people are catching an attitude about it. So all I can tell you is Relson travels all throughout the States doing seminars. Check his seminar schedule, go to one and ask him. Just like Fat Buddha did.

The point of mentioning these "cool" experiences is to inspire others to learn from Relson. Period. I understand your frustration, but trust me, describing these "secret" techniques won't do you any good. You're best off just getting it from the source.

Do what fats did: he heard cool things about Relson, so he sought him out. Like Fami said, he does seminars around the country. Find a Relson T.A. or affiliate, and ask him when Relson is coming out. Pretty simple I think.

And, for the record, I'm not a member of Relson's organization.

I'm sorry if someone interprets my post as catching an attitude about anything, as something as trivial as this thread certainly won't make me upset.

My intention was to point out that I believe a free exchange of ideas is what benefits people the most as opposed to viewing others here as competition or rivals. I respect that the opinions of many here differ from this and thus I won't be posting anything pertaining to techniques and such in the future if it is not welcome by people I respect in this forum.

I also wanted to point out that the world does not consist of the United States and learning from someone is not as simple as taking a seminar or taking one flight.

My opinion are not meant to be hostile towards anyone as I respect all of the members here, many of which I have been corresponding with (one way or another) for several years.

I want to point out that although the Internet and especially written descriptions are a very poor way to learn techniques it doesn't mean that it would be useless to do so. Personally I have gained new ideas from the posts of others and certainly have benefited from them by gaining a new perspective on something or enhancing what I already know.

Anyway, I'm certainly interested in what Mr. Relson Gracie has to offer and will definitely take the opportunity to learn from him if it presents itself. Thanks for notifying everyone of the fruitful learning experience, FatBuddha! Sounds like an awesome instructor that has very much to offer.

I wonder how many secret techniques he doesn't teach because he wants to save them against his enemies. (Dry humour to lighten up this thread.)

"I was going to describe it, but too many people are catching an
attitude about it."


FB, Fami, 4 ranges,

Do you guys think we're stupid? This thread was started by one of you. And the obvious point of it was to draw attention to Relson Gracie and what he has taught you.

Like I said NO ONE, at least not on this forum, would even know anything about what Relson taught or was going to teach you UNLESS one of you guys ANNOUNCED or ADVERTISED it.

Now that people have respond to the thread that was PLACED in a PUBLIC forum (which essentially means it is an announcement/advertisement) and was CREATED by one of you guys, you have the nerve to chastise us about not stealing from your experience from Relson but rather seek him out for ourselves and get our own experience with him. How arrogant is that.

If your going to be so uppity about the whole matter than WHY even ANNOUNCE/ADVERTISE the whole thing in a PUBLIC FORUM in the damn first place?

Newsflash!!! people wouldn't even give a damn if you didn't make such POINT to announce it to the world.

If the matter is really something between FB and Fami then I have one question: ever heard of private e-mail? If you privately discuss the matter between yourselves then you wouldn't have to deal with anyone asking you about the damn thing!

Like I said before all this is you guys own fault. If don't want people to ask about your business maybe you shouldn't TELL people about it to begin with!

Like I said earlier, Fat Buddha made a post on this forum asking what he should ask about. I mentioned a few things for him to ask about. Then everybody and their brother came on begging describe it. Fat Buddha and I do not know each other so that eliminates email. I was just trying to be helpful.

Now it was me who posted about it and I had every intention to describe it as best as possible after FB had his private so possibly he could help me describe it as I'm not good at that. As it turns out FB did not ask about the technique in question. 4 Ranges knows it and I'm sure poodollar too. However, they never said they'd describe it. I did.

Then I come on here and see all kinds of attitude about it. People claiming we're bragging about secret moves and all kinds of other plain rude behavior. So, I decided not to bother posting a description for a bunch of impatient and rude people.

Mike Sweeney acted with some class about the whole issue so I asked him for his email and sent him a description privately.

"I was going to describe it, but to many people are catching an attitude about it."

-Fine, take your ball and go home...

This move is really no big deal, but I thought it was cool so I suggested it to FatBuddha. It's not a super secret but it is pretty effective. I haven't been finished with a kimura from N/S since learning this move.

I hope all of you will now quit whining about it, because it's no big deal and has been blown way out of proportion. So here's the damn simple little defense that most of you that are bitching have probably already seen from your own instructors.

The guy has gone North/South and secured a kimura on your left arm. The old defense is to grab your belt. In this one you grab the gi of your right arm at the tricep with your left hand. Your right hand grabs the gi of your left arm at the tricep area. Any attempt to force the kimura will result only in your upper body being lifted off the ground, but your arm will never move for him to finish the lock. That's the defense.

The counter is when he's trying to force the lock and he lifts your upper body off the mat but fails too free the arm for the kimura. As he lets you back down to the mat you use the momentum he creates to bring up your legs and hips and trap his head with your legs in a head scissor. Your knees should be on either side of his jaw. Cross your feet and extend your legs while rolling your knees inward.

I've found that the natural reaction is when he lifts his head comes up, and when he puts you down his head comes down too being in the perfect position for the head scissor.

The pain this creates is tremendous when you have it sunk correctly. It feels like your whole head is about to explode.
9 times out of 10 this will cause him to tap. At the very least he will give up on the kimura to try and free his head.

In my best Cartman voice

Screw you guys, I'm going home.

thank you Famigerado

Thanks for the great explanation, Famigerado. I think you did a great job in putting the move to words.



4 Ranges,

Damn! I thought my head was gonna explode! You guys were right on the money!!!


Have Relson do that to you, with his pointy knees. THEN your head will really explode lol!

"waaahhhh, he wouldn't show me! waaaaaahhh!!!"

"ok, ok; here it shhhhhh now; this is how you do it."

sound of baby sucking on pacifier