Remember When Al Bundy Told Bas How To Punch?

Underground
21
onepunchJD -
Choked72 - 
watahhh -

I came accross this clip online of the Al Bundy guy on Covid and the Kid (who also has Covid) from ages ago.

Adn hes talking about some time he told Bas he was punching people wrong and that he should do it the way Al Bundy does

The level of arrogance you have to have to tell Bas fucking Rutten of all people how to punch when you're just some dipshit actor who likes to train is beyond me.

What a jerk off

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDCrn4miXqQ&t=1s

Bas Rutten is an actor also.

Extremely high proportion of fixed fights. Ruben was a real MMA match but it goes down hill from there. Incredible how he has maintained his reputation vs someone like Shamrock who gets hassled about bad performances. Yes...but they were real, at least 

The works in Pancrase were mostly early on, and fewer than people think.

There were cases where fighters would carry a guy to make a better show, but even that evolved away.

Ironically, it was Ken Shamrock who actually put a couple guys over in Pancrase (Funaki,Suzuki)

It was the only way he could lose, lol!

All of Ken’s Pancrase wins are legit, with the exception of an exhibition with Hume.

His few losses were works.

And that stigma has followed him his entire career, causing people to doubt every one of his fights where something unusual happens.

Ken got started during that transition period in the early days of JMMA – and putting guys over was still ingrained in that culture.

So it’s kind of hard to really blame Ken there.

We didn’t have over 2 decades of sanctioned MMA to compare as some kind of standard.

Most people in the U.S. had never heard of shoot fighting, and certainly not pancrase.

They were either watching boxing, or JCVD movies, LOL!

I very much doubt that Bas had any worked fights.

He struggled against Ken based on a bad matchup.

But other than Ken, Bas has a win over every fighter he ever fought.

And (realistically) second to Ken, Bas was the most dominant Pancrase fighter of that era.

You can’t just throw the evolution of an organization out the window because it has some growing pains before “MMA” was really even a thing.

I would like to see you point out specific Bas Rutten fights you believe to be worked in some way…

OK. Here's one....for posterity's sake Vs Fuke

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpI2Wg3jGuM

Watch 3:00 - 3:10. Nice escape, huh? Followed by a knee KO to the liver. Kind of like somebody wrote a story to fit Bas’ profile.

Sorry, but that is a fix.

Bas is a great fighter. And Shamrock is a great fighter but all the guys who came up in Japan have participated in many fixed fights. Good for them, I hope they made some money. But Bas has worked the PR machine far too hard such that people put him in a pantheon of legends when there are plenty of mid tier folks in the UFC over the years that were better fighters in real fights.

1 Like
22
watahhh -

I came accross this clip online of the Al Bundy guy on Covid and the Kid (who also has Covid) from ages ago.

Adn hes talking about some time he told Bas he was punching people wrong and that he should do it the way Al Bundy does

The level of arrogance you have to have to tell Bas fucking Rutten of all people how to punch when you're just some dipshit actor who likes to train is beyond me.

What a jerk off

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDCrn4miXqQ&t=1s

So because he’s an actor he can’t have a valid opinion? 

23
Kirik - 
Siciliano di Brooklyn - 
Kirik - 

It's an old boxing vs. karate argument.

Break this down???

People in karate hit with the two knuckles closest to the thumb. They take a 2x4 or whatever, wrap the top with rope, bury the other end in the ground, and punch it hard a lot. Wolff's law, the fist gets stronger. That's how karate guys punch through lots of boards and stuff. Some of karate breaking is basically a parlor trick, some of it isn't and takes really conditioned hands.

In boxing, traditionally, a lot of trainers teach what Jack Dempsey called The Power Line, hitting with the ring finger (next to the pinky) and the two adjacent knuckles (pinky and middle).

Proponents of the karate version argue that boxers can only get away with that because they have wrap, tape, and a glove. And breaking the pinky metacarpal is so common it's called a Boxer's Fracture. Some people call breaking the ring finger a Boxer's Fracture too.

Boxers point out that throwing a hook and hitting with the two knuckles closest to the hand is super awkward. And I guess some people, like Ed O'Neill argue that you will break your wrist by hitting with the two knuckles closest to the thumb, but that's factually incorrect, obviously. My guess is the Al Bundy guy just read Dempey's book and believed it, and as there is not a lot of power striking in Rorion's jiu-jitsu, he never found out otherwise.

18 years ago I was in a street fight, threw a wild hook and broke my 5th metacarpal. It didn’t really hurt but my hand blew up. Doc said it was a very common “boxer’s fracture.”

I grew up Boxing, not Karate. Don’t know if that made a difference in why I broke my hand. Like you said, since I didn’t have any wrap, tape, and glove…

24
Choked72 - 
William C - 
Choked72 - 
watahhh -

I came accross this clip online of the Al Bundy guy on Covid and the Kid (who also has Covid) from ages ago.

Adn hes talking about some time he told Bas he was punching people wrong and that he should do it the way Al Bundy does

The level of arrogance you have to have to tell Bas fucking Rutten of all people how to punch when you're just some dipshit actor who likes to train is beyond me.

What a jerk off

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDCrn4miXqQ&t=1s

Bas Rutten is an actor also.

Extremely high proportion of fixed fights. Ruben was a real MMA match but it goes down hill from there. Incredible how he has maintained his reputation vs someone like Shamrock who gets hassled about bad performances. Yes...but they were real, at least 

Give us a laugh and share your knowledge- if such a high proportion of his 30 or so fights were fixed, go ahead and name 5- that should be easy.

(I would like to see 5 so we can laugh at how far you have to reach)

(I’m assuming you arent trolling with your post)

I can always count on you to come to Bas’ defense, William. Have been through this before with you.

Let’s keep it simple and refer to all of his Pancrase matches. It’s well known how things worked in Japan in the 90s

I thought so. You know nothing, talk out of your rear, and make excuses and deflect.

Thank you for clowning yourself.

25
Choked72 - 
onepunchJD -
Choked72 - 
watahhh -

I came accross this clip online of the Al Bundy guy on Covid and the Kid (who also has Covid) from ages ago.

Adn hes talking about some time he told Bas he was punching people wrong and that he should do it the way Al Bundy does

The level of arrogance you have to have to tell Bas fucking Rutten of all people how to punch when you're just some dipshit actor who likes to train is beyond me.

What a jerk off

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDCrn4miXqQ&t=1s

Bas Rutten is an actor also.

Extremely high proportion of fixed fights. Ruben was a real MMA match but it goes down hill from there. Incredible how he has maintained his reputation vs someone like Shamrock who gets hassled about bad performances. Yes...but they were real, at least 

The works in Pancrase were mostly early on, and fewer than people think.

There were cases where fighters would carry a guy to make a better show, but even that evolved away.

Ironically, it was Ken Shamrock who actually put a couple guys over in Pancrase (Funaki,Suzuki)

It was the only way he could lose, lol!

All of Ken’s Pancrase wins are legit, with the exception of an exhibition with Hume.

His few losses were works.

And that stigma has followed him his entire career, causing people to doubt every one of his fights where something unusual happens.

Ken got started during that transition period in the early days of JMMA – and putting guys over was still ingrained in that culture.

So it’s kind of hard to really blame Ken there.

We didn’t have over 2 decades of sanctioned MMA to compare as some kind of standard.

Most people in the U.S. had never heard of shoot fighting, and certainly not pancrase.

They were either watching boxing, or JCVD movies, LOL!

I very much doubt that Bas had any worked fights.

He struggled against Ken based on a bad matchup.

But other than Ken, Bas has a win over every fighter he ever fought.

And (realistically) second to Ken, Bas was the most dominant Pancrase fighter of that era.

You can’t just throw the evolution of an organization out the window because it has some growing pains before “MMA” was really even a thing.

I would like to see you point out specific Bas Rutten fights you believe to be worked in some way…

OK. Here's one....for posterity's sake Vs Fuke

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpI2Wg3jGuM

Watch 3:00 - 3:10. Nice escape, huh? Followed by a knee KO to the liver. Kind of like somebody wrote a story to fit Bas’ profile.

Sorry, but that is a fix.

Bas is a great fighter. And Shamrock is a great fighter but all the guys who came up in Japan have participated in many fixed fights. Good for them, I hope they made some money. But Bas has worked the PR machine far too hard such that people put him in a pantheon of legends when there are plenty of mid tier folks in the UFC over the years that were better fighters in real fights.

lol okay, you are attempting to play.

The short answer is sorry, you don’t know MMA or what you are watching. Although I am sure your vast knowledge extends back as far as TUF season 3 or so (maybe even season 2?).

I know this is going to sound crazy, but hear me out- that match was a month before UFC 1. Of course they will not look slick on the ground. At this point Bas knew next to nothing about grappling, and Fuke was not good either. Therefore, a very sloppy armbar.

Do you know nothing of context, and the skill sets of those involved?

And heaven forbid a deadly striker like Bas lands a great shot on a submission wrestler who is not a striker (or really good at wrestling). Oh my God I can’t comprehend.

Oh it’s too much, let me put on the tin foil hat it’s all a conspiracy.

So anyway, you claim all his fights are works. Clearly you fail here, but let’s have more laughs- let me know several more of his works. Go ahead, all his fights are on youtube. Easy to find. Let me know all these works you are aware of with your vast knowledge. Go feverishly dig through the fights, and don’t forget to take your meds as you get stressed out for being called out on your utter nonsense.

(There were works in Pancrase of course, you just don’t know anything of what you speak)

1 Like
26
William C - 
Choked72 - 
William C - 
Choked72 - 
watahhh -

I came accross this clip online of the Al Bundy guy on Covid and the Kid (who also has Covid) from ages ago.

Adn hes talking about some time he told Bas he was punching people wrong and that he should do it the way Al Bundy does

The level of arrogance you have to have to tell Bas fucking Rutten of all people how to punch when you're just some dipshit actor who likes to train is beyond me.

What a jerk off

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDCrn4miXqQ&t=1s

Bas Rutten is an actor also.

Extremely high proportion of fixed fights. Ruben was a real MMA match but it goes down hill from there. Incredible how he has maintained his reputation vs someone like Shamrock who gets hassled about bad performances. Yes...but they were real, at least 

Give us a laugh and share your knowledge- if such a high proportion of his 30 or so fights were fixed, go ahead and name 5- that should be easy.

(I would like to see 5 so we can laugh at how far you have to reach)

(I’m assuming you arent trolling with your post)

I can always count on you to come to Bas’ defense, William. Have been through this before with you.

Let’s keep it simple and refer to all of his Pancrase matches. It’s well known how things worked in Japan in the 90s

I thought so. You know nothing, talk out of your rear, and make excuses and deflect.

Thank you for clowning yourself.

Please read above. I have provided an example for you. I already know what you are going to say. Something along the lines of “well…they were just feeling out for a position” or “ok…that’s one…now show me another one!”

I know you are super invested in the whole Japan MMA scene. I would be touchy about it as well if I worshipped the characters from that era as you do and had personal relationships with them. There are some great athletes for sure, the types of guys you train with and can’t help but be in awe, but the fact is that many of those fights were fixed. And it’s obvious when looking back at how things played out.

27

Once again- absolutely nothing to back your ridiculous claims, merely deflection.

Triggered… Texa$ s-t-y-l-e

28

Ed is a very good striker

29
Choked72 - 
onepunchJD -
Choked72 - 
watahhh -

I came accross this clip online of the Al Bundy guy on Covid and the Kid (who also has Covid) from ages ago.

Adn hes talking about some time he told Bas he was punching people wrong and that he should do it the way Al Bundy does

The level of arrogance you have to have to tell Bas fucking Rutten of all people how to punch when you're just some dipshit actor who likes to train is beyond me.

What a jerk off

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDCrn4miXqQ&t=1s

Bas Rutten is an actor also.

Extremely high proportion of fixed fights. Ruben was a real MMA match but it goes down hill from there. Incredible how he has maintained his reputation vs someone like Shamrock who gets hassled about bad performances. Yes...but they were real, at least 

The works in Pancrase were mostly early on, and fewer than people think.

There were cases where fighters would carry a guy to make a better show, but even that evolved away.

Ironically, it was Ken Shamrock who actually put a couple guys over in Pancrase (Funaki,Suzuki)

It was the only way he could lose, lol!

All of Ken’s Pancrase wins are legit, with the exception of an exhibition with Hume.

His few losses were works.

And that stigma has followed him his entire career, causing people to doubt every one of his fights where something unusual happens.

Ken got started during that transition period in the early days of JMMA – and putting guys over was still ingrained in that culture.

So it’s kind of hard to really blame Ken there.

We didn’t have over 2 decades of sanctioned MMA to compare as some kind of standard.

Most people in the U.S. had never heard of shoot fighting, and certainly not pancrase.

They were either watching boxing, or JCVD movies, LOL!

I very much doubt that Bas had any worked fights.

He struggled against Ken based on a bad matchup.

But other than Ken, Bas has a win over every fighter he ever fought.

And (realistically) second to Ken, Bas was the most dominant Pancrase fighter of that era.

You can’t just throw the evolution of an organization out the window because it has some growing pains before “MMA” was really even a thing.

I would like to see you point out specific Bas Rutten fights you believe to be worked in some way…

OK. Here's one....for posterity's sake Vs Fuke

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpI2Wg3jGuM

Watch 3:00 - 3:10. Nice escape, huh? Followed by a knee KO to the liver. Kind of like somebody wrote a story to fit Bas’ profile.

Sorry, but that is a fix.

Bas is a great fighter. And Shamrock is a great fighter but all the guys who came up in Japan have participated in many fixed fights. Good for them, I hope they made some money. But Bas has worked the PR machine far too hard such that people put him in a pantheon of legends when there are plenty of mid tier folks in the UFC over the years that were better fighters in real fights.

Short answer:

They were sweaty, Fuke slipped.

And few things are more painful than a solid body shot.

Long answer:

See William C.

I could do it, but he does it better.

30

^^^

Choked72 -

On a side note…

At least you give them credit for being “great fighters”.

I have seen fighter bashers that refuse to even extend that basic respect.

But I’m thinking you significantly over estimate the amount of “works” that occured in Pancrase.

There were some fishy fights in the early UFC too.

Should we make blanket assumptions about a fighter like Don Frye??

BTW:

I drank with Don Frye once.

That’s my shameless “name drop” on a thread that includes William C. LOL!

…

But I tell you what – that man never had to train a day in his life, and he still would have been a very dangerous human being.

31
onepunchJD - 
Choked72 - 
onepunchJD -
Choked72 - 
watahhh -

I came accross this clip online of the Al Bundy guy on Covid and the Kid (who also has Covid) from ages ago.

Adn hes talking about some time he told Bas he was punching people wrong and that he should do it the way Al Bundy does

The level of arrogance you have to have to tell Bas fucking Rutten of all people how to punch when you're just some dipshit actor who likes to train is beyond me.

What a jerk off

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDCrn4miXqQ&t=1s

Bas Rutten is an actor also.

Extremely high proportion of fixed fights. Ruben was a real MMA match but it goes down hill from there. Incredible how he has maintained his reputation vs someone like Shamrock who gets hassled about bad performances. Yes...but they were real, at least 

The works in Pancrase were mostly early on, and fewer than people think.

There were cases where fighters would carry a guy to make a better show, but even that evolved away.

Ironically, it was Ken Shamrock who actually put a couple guys over in Pancrase (Funaki,Suzuki)

It was the only way he could lose, lol!

All of Ken’s Pancrase wins are legit, with the exception of an exhibition with Hume.

His few losses were works.

And that stigma has followed him his entire career, causing people to doubt every one of his fights where something unusual happens.

Ken got started during that transition period in the early days of JMMA – and putting guys over was still ingrained in that culture.

So it’s kind of hard to really blame Ken there.

We didn’t have over 2 decades of sanctioned MMA to compare as some kind of standard.

Most people in the U.S. had never heard of shoot fighting, and certainly not pancrase.

They were either watching boxing, or JCVD movies, LOL!

I very much doubt that Bas had any worked fights.

He struggled against Ken based on a bad matchup.

But other than Ken, Bas has a win over every fighter he ever fought.

And (realistically) second to Ken, Bas was the most dominant Pancrase fighter of that era.

You can’t just throw the evolution of an organization out the window because it has some growing pains before “MMA” was really even a thing.

I would like to see you point out specific Bas Rutten fights you believe to be worked in some way…

OK. Here's one....for posterity's sake Vs Fuke

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpI2Wg3jGuM

Watch 3:00 - 3:10. Nice escape, huh? Followed by a knee KO to the liver. Kind of like somebody wrote a story to fit Bas’ profile.

Sorry, but that is a fix.

Bas is a great fighter. And Shamrock is a great fighter but all the guys who came up in Japan have participated in many fixed fights. Good for them, I hope they made some money. But Bas has worked the PR machine far too hard such that people put him in a pantheon of legends when there are plenty of mid tier folks in the UFC over the years that were better fighters in real fights.

Short answer:

They were sweaty, Fuke slipped.

And few things are more painful than a solid body shot.

Long answer:

See William C.

I could do it, but he does it better.

At least you have the ability to read all the posts. We’ll have to disagree on that match. I think it looks like a straight up fake and many of Bas’ Pancrase matches do.

And I am certainly not the first or only person to think this, also.

Doesn’t mean he isn’t a bad ass, but as I said, I believe his record to have a substantial amount of fixed matches. He is nothing like what his stories have made him out to be and that’s what is most relevant to this thread.

Bas was once again telling stories and someone called him on it. I don’t necessarily agree with O’Neill but the backrop to the story is totally believable. Bas has always been all about talking up Bas.

32
Choked72 - 
onepunchJD - 
Choked72 - 
onepunchJD -
Choked72 - 
watahhh -

I came accross this clip online of the Al Bundy guy on Covid and the Kid (who also has Covid) from ages ago.

Adn hes talking about some time he told Bas he was punching people wrong and that he should do it the way Al Bundy does

The level of arrogance you have to have to tell Bas fucking Rutten of all people how to punch when you're just some dipshit actor who likes to train is beyond me.

What a jerk off

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDCrn4miXqQ&t=1s

Bas Rutten is an actor also.

Extremely high proportion of fixed fights. Ruben was a real MMA match but it goes down hill from there. Incredible how he has maintained his reputation vs someone like Shamrock who gets hassled about bad performances. Yes...but they were real, at least 

The works in Pancrase were mostly early on, and fewer than people think.

There were cases where fighters would carry a guy to make a better show, but even that evolved away.

Ironically, it was Ken Shamrock who actually put a couple guys over in Pancrase (Funaki,Suzuki)

It was the only way he could lose, lol!

All of Ken’s Pancrase wins are legit, with the exception of an exhibition with Hume.

His few losses were works.

And that stigma has followed him his entire career, causing people to doubt every one of his fights where something unusual happens.

Ken got started during that transition period in the early days of JMMA – and putting guys over was still ingrained in that culture.

So it’s kind of hard to really blame Ken there.

We didn’t have over 2 decades of sanctioned MMA to compare as some kind of standard.

Most people in the U.S. had never heard of shoot fighting, and certainly not pancrase.

They were either watching boxing, or JCVD movies, LOL!

I very much doubt that Bas had any worked fights.

He struggled against Ken based on a bad matchup.

But other than Ken, Bas has a win over every fighter he ever fought.

And (realistically) second to Ken, Bas was the most dominant Pancrase fighter of that era.

You can’t just throw the evolution of an organization out the window because it has some growing pains before “MMA” was really even a thing.

I would like to see you point out specific Bas Rutten fights you believe to be worked in some way…

OK. Here's one....for posterity's sake Vs Fuke

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpI2Wg3jGuM

Watch 3:00 - 3:10. Nice escape, huh? Followed by a knee KO to the liver. Kind of like somebody wrote a story to fit Bas’ profile.

Sorry, but that is a fix.

Bas is a great fighter. And Shamrock is a great fighter but all the guys who came up in Japan have participated in many fixed fights. Good for them, I hope they made some money. But Bas has worked the PR machine far too hard such that people put him in a pantheon of legends when there are plenty of mid tier folks in the UFC over the years that were better fighters in real fights.

Short answer:

They were sweaty, Fuke slipped.

And few things are more painful than a solid body shot.

Long answer:

See William C.

I could do it, but he does it better.

At least you have the ability to read all the posts. We’ll have to disagree on that match. I think it looks like a straight up fake and many of Bas’ Pancrase matches do.

And I am certainly not the first or only person to think this, also.

Doesn’t mean he isn’t a bad ass, but as I said, I believe his record to have a substantial amount of fixed matches. He is nothing like what his stories have made him out to be and that’s what is most relevant to this thread.

Bas was once again telling stories and someone called him on it. I don’t necessarily agree with O’Neill but the backrop to the story is totally believable. Bas has always been all about talking up Bas.

Ok…

Fair question:

Are you willing to respond to William C.'s

response-- in detail-- and continue down that road??

Because these debates surrounding this particular era, have been hashed out at length – by the most knowledgeable posters on the subject…

1 Like
33
froggy - Ed Oneill is an OG. Period.

Of private lessons. 

34

Bas is a low-key charlatan. He was very tough for his era, but there’s a reason why he isn’t coaching. His seminars are meet and greets with techniques that have been shown a million times. You can quote him probably 50+ times commentating in pride events that arm in guillotines don’t work. That’s out of touch from a technical standpoint. He’s even involved in some pyramid scheme selling supplements with militich. Black onyx or something. 

Other than that gift dancing bear role he had in the short fat guy mma movie, he acting career didn’t go quite as planned. Who would have thought taktorov would have been the resoundingly more successful one in Hollywood? 

35

Lots of Bas hate here, which is a shame. Either way I’ll be taking his word in this argument all day.

1 Like
36
onepunchJD - 
Choked72 - 
onepunchJD -
Choked72 - 
watahhh -

I came accross this clip online of the Al Bundy guy on Covid and the Kid (who also has Covid) from ages ago.

Adn hes talking about some time he told Bas he was punching people wrong and that he should do it the way Al Bundy does

The level of arrogance you have to have to tell Bas fucking Rutten of all people how to punch when you're just some dipshit actor who likes to train is beyond me.

What a jerk off

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDCrn4miXqQ&t=1s

Bas Rutten is an actor also.

Extremely high proportion of fixed fights. Ruben was a real MMA match but it goes down hill from there. Incredible how he has maintained his reputation vs someone like Shamrock who gets hassled about bad performances. Yes...but they were real, at least 

The works in Pancrase were mostly early on, and fewer than people think.

There were cases where fighters would carry a guy to make a better show, but even that evolved away.

Ironically, it was Ken Shamrock who actually put a couple guys over in Pancrase (Funaki,Suzuki)

It was the only way he could lose, lol!

All of Ken’s Pancrase wins are legit, with the exception of an exhibition with Hume.

His few losses were works.

And that stigma has followed him his entire career, causing people to doubt every one of his fights where something unusual happens.

Ken got started during that transition period in the early days of JMMA – and putting guys over was still ingrained in that culture.

So it’s kind of hard to really blame Ken there.

We didn’t have over 2 decades of sanctioned MMA to compare as some kind of standard.

Most people in the U.S. had never heard of shoot fighting, and certainly not pancrase.

They were either watching boxing, or JCVD movies, LOL!

I very much doubt that Bas had any worked fights.

He struggled against Ken based on a bad matchup.

But other than Ken, Bas has a win over every fighter he ever fought.

And (realistically) second to Ken, Bas was the most dominant Pancrase fighter of that era.

You can’t just throw the evolution of an organization out the window because it has some growing pains before “MMA” was really even a thing.

I would like to see you point out specific Bas Rutten fights you believe to be worked in some way…

OK. Here's one....for posterity's sake Vs Fuke

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpI2Wg3jGuM

Watch 3:00 - 3:10. Nice escape, huh? Followed by a knee KO to the liver. Kind of like somebody wrote a story to fit Bas’ profile.

Sorry, but that is a fix.

Bas is a great fighter. And Shamrock is a great fighter but all the guys who came up in Japan have participated in many fixed fights. Good for them, I hope they made some money. But Bas has worked the PR machine far too hard such that people put him in a pantheon of legends when there are plenty of mid tier folks in the UFC over the years that were better fighters in real fights.

Short answer:

They were sweaty, Fuke slipped.

And few things are more painful than a solid body shot.

Long answer:

See William C.

I could do it, but he does it better.

Hey thanks man! Love the passion and reason in your posts.

I thought I’d have a little fun today in here, but I’m done for now with the trolls. You can have the thread lol.

For those interested in solid info on works in RINGS and Pancrase- from the Holland end/POV at least- the Bas interview section I just posted like a day ago has a lot on that topic. I don’t shy away from that subject at all.

Coincidentally, that first Fuke fight comes up in that chapter (part 2), but of course not as a worked match. That was legit.

I bring up works in Pancrase again later in the Bas interview, I think in the beginning of part 4.

One of the other interviews I’ll be posting soon has some good details on a specific worked bout. Lots of good insight coming.

37

Colosimo: After your second match in Pancrase, after you beat (Takaku “Yusuke”) Fuke, you went to dinner with Funaki and Suzuki, they gave you the instructional book by their teacher Yoshiaki Fujiwara, and you told them you thought they were gonna ask you to work fights. Do you remember specifically which one- Funaki or Suzuki- told you they would never ask you to do that?

Rutten: It was Funaki, because what happened was I was in the car already, and they were still standing outside to wave goodbye to me, and then suddenly I say “Wait”, and I open the door and say “Let me ask you a question- I thought you were going to ask me to lose or to win.” Funaki told me “Who said that?” I said “Well, Chris.” And he said “We would never ask you to do that.” I said “Okay, good. I’m very happy about that.” That was it.

38
Siciliano di Brooklyn - 
Kirik - 
Siciliano di Brooklyn - 
Kirik - 

It's an old boxing vs. karate argument.

Break this down???

People in karate hit with the two knuckles closest to the thumb. They take a 2x4 or whatever, wrap the top with rope, bury the other end in the ground, and punch it hard a lot. Wolff's law, the fist gets stronger. That's how karate guys punch through lots of boards and stuff. Some of karate breaking is basically a parlor trick, some of it isn't and takes really conditioned hands.

In boxing, traditionally, a lot of trainers teach what Jack Dempsey called The Power Line, hitting with the ring finger (next to the pinky) and the two adjacent knuckles (pinky and middle).

Proponents of the karate version argue that boxers can only get away with that because they have wrap, tape, and a glove. And breaking the pinky metacarpal is so common it's called a Boxer's Fracture. Some people call breaking the ring finger a Boxer's Fracture too.

Boxers point out that throwing a hook and hitting with the two knuckles closest to the hand is super awkward. And I guess some people, like Ed O'Neill argue that you will break your wrist by hitting with the two knuckles closest to the thumb, but that's factually incorrect, obviously. My guess is the Al Bundy guy just read Dempey's book and believed it, and as there is not a lot of power striking in Rorion's jiu-jitsu, he never found out otherwise.

18 years ago I was in a street fight, threw a wild hook and broke my 5th metacarpal. It didn’t really hurt but my hand blew up. Doc said it was a very common “boxer’s fracture.”

I grew up Boxing, not Karate. Don’t know if that made a difference in why I broke my hand. Like you said, since I didn’t have any wrap, tape, and glove…

I broke the same bone, through gauze, tape, and gloves. The goof who taped my hands was me :-)

39
Choked72 - 
onepunchJD -
Choked72 - 
watahhh -

I came accross this clip online of the Al Bundy guy on Covid and the Kid (who also has Covid) from ages ago.

Adn hes talking about some time he told Bas he was punching people wrong and that he should do it the way Al Bundy does

The level of arrogance you have to have to tell Bas fucking Rutten of all people how to punch when you're just some dipshit actor who likes to train is beyond me.

What a jerk off

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDCrn4miXqQ&t=1s

Bas Rutten is an actor also.

Extremely high proportion of fixed fights. Ruben was a real MMA match but it goes down hill from there. Incredible how he has maintained his reputation vs someone like Shamrock who gets hassled about bad performances. Yes...but they were real, at least 

The works in Pancrase were mostly early on, and fewer than people think.

There were cases where fighters would carry a guy to make a better show, but even that evolved away.

Ironically, it was Ken Shamrock who actually put a couple guys over in Pancrase (Funaki,Suzuki)

It was the only way he could lose, lol!

All of Ken’s Pancrase wins are legit, with the exception of an exhibition with Hume.

His few losses were works.

And that stigma has followed him his entire career, causing people to doubt every one of his fights where something unusual happens.

Ken got started during that transition period in the early days of JMMA – and putting guys over was still ingrained in that culture.

So it’s kind of hard to really blame Ken there.

We didn’t have over 2 decades of sanctioned MMA to compare as some kind of standard.

Most people in the U.S. had never heard of shoot fighting, and certainly not pancrase.

They were either watching boxing, or JCVD movies, LOL!

I very much doubt that Bas had any worked fights.

He struggled against Ken based on a bad matchup.

But other than Ken, Bas has a win over every fighter he ever fought.

And (realistically) second to Ken, Bas was the most dominant Pancrase fighter of that era.

You can’t just throw the evolution of an organization out the window because it has some growing pains before “MMA” was really even a thing.

I would like to see you point out specific Bas Rutten fights you believe to be worked in some way…

OK. Here's one....for posterity's sake Vs Fuke

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpI2Wg3jGuM

Watch 3:00 - 3:10. Nice escape, huh? Followed by a knee KO to the liver. Kind of like somebody wrote a story to fit Bas’ profile.

Sorry, but that is a fix.

Bas is a great fighter. And Shamrock is a great fighter but all the guys who came up in Japan have participated in many fixed fights. Good for them, I hope they made some money. But Bas has worked the PR machine far too hard such that people put him in a pantheon of legends when there are plenty of mid tier folks in the UFC over the years that were better fighters in real fights.

I don't want to bicker on the Internet, at all. But that does not look like a work. There was little understanding of a positional basis for MMA then. Guys would sort of hover sometimes looking for a limb to snag. Maybe looks with hindsight like a work, but it was the state of the game then.

40
TFK_Tony Montana -

Ed is a black belt under the Gracie’s, he’s got some credibility.

How on earth does having a black belt under a Gracie give you the right to tell a ufc heavy weight champ, pancrase and all around actual mma fighting legend and pioneer of the sport known specifically for devistating punches.....

How to punch propperly.

If he was giving him advice on a guard pass or some shit maybe listen to him I guess.

But punching? Hell no.