Rener Gracie and his footlock

In all the matches I've seen of Rener (socal proam, pan ams, super fight with Macaco, etc) I've never seen him pass or even attempt to pass the guard. He always goes for the straight ankle lock and gets it.

What does everyone here think of that strategy? I realize a win is a win, but I wanted to see if anyone here still had the old school mentality of footlocks being cheap, etc. Also, I know Gracie Torrance has always been about 'finishing fights' but it's funny to think of that term applied in the sense of footlocks.

I think there is no problem with it if you get it. He still knows how to pass guard and is super talented.

Edit: The problem is when newer people always rely on the footlock and never learn how to properly pass guard.

HAHA, trust me, that's not what I was saying at all. I love his strategy and I'm all for it, 100%, I wanted to hear other peoples opinions.

how is a submission, where you force the opponent to give up not finishing a fight?

 Catchwrestling IMHO.



I heard that he was taught a secret way to do it by Helio, where he falls to his side and not his back.   That is the Catch way.

He taught the same details when he visited our academy last year.

I had a dickhead purplebelt in Brazil apply this to me a year and a half ago and wouldnt let go even after a tapped for like 20 seconds. My ligament above my ankle and knee still hurts from it sometimes. Will this ever go away?

Defense

The funny thing is the Gracie academy used to be the source of "leg locks are cheap" .They were always quick to criticize what they didnt know or didnt like. Now the younger generation made them a big part of their game. Good for them. I always felt the oleg taktarovs and rumina satos of the world were just as " technical" as sperry or gurgel just in different ways.

SgtMac - The funny thing is the Gracie academy used to be the source of "leg locks are cheap" .They were always quick to criticize what they didnt know or didnt like. Now the younger generation made them a big part of their game. Good for them. I always felt the oleg taktarovs and rumina satos of the world were just as " technical" as sperry or gurgel just in different ways.


It wasn't the Gracie Academy that said they were cheap, it was some competitors in the sport BJJ community (that Helio did not believe in) that called them cheap. Helio was doing footlocks back in the 1950s (if not earlier) and there is film footage and photos to prove it. Footlocks have always been a part of Gracie Jiu-Jitsu (and Judo).

Its proper technique to fall to your hip....the biggest factor of this is how it effects your finish.....if you lay flat on your back, the ground gets in the way of you applying good pressure for the finish. (cant really arch your back too well as the ground stops you)



If you are on your side, you can bend backward and apply pressure without the ground getting in your way....



its a physics thing.  (not some old bjj secrect.)



the key to good bjj is understanding body mechanics.  understand how the body works and your technique will become a lot sharper.  Dont just monkey see monkey do jiu jitsu.



;-)

^^Exactly. Amazing how it's considered a "secret" technique, or something stolen or taken from somewhere else. It's all just physics. (And ball bearings :))

pitbullxyz - 

What does everyone here think of that strategy? I realize a win is a win, but I wanted to see if anyone here still had the old school mentality of footlocks being cheap, etc. Also, I know Gracie Torrance has always been about 'finishing fights' but it's funny to think of that term applied in the sense of footlocks.


That "old school" mentality came from well established BJJ guys sucked at defensing footlocks.

Now that most guys know enough leg lock defense to avoid them against the "less established guys" they might face in competition the outlook on footlocks cheapery has "changed"

I think everyone should understand that if you tap to a lower body submission it is only because your jiu jitsu wasn't good enough on that day.

Rener is really good, I think alot of old school guys are alright with the ankle lock, they just detest the heel hook . I wish Rener kept competing, his ankle lock game was sweet. The Macaco fight was awesome.

e. kaye -  Catchwrestling IMHO.

I heard that he was taught a secret way to do it by Helio, where he falls to his side and not his back.   That is the Catch way.



lol ... beat me to it. iwas gonna say the same thing...if u can get the footlock -why not? why pass the guard if not necessary or if other options are open to you..even just "attacking" the foot will open the guard for you and make it easier to pass.

i never did it to my partners fully buti have just went for their foot just to get a "reaction" for me to determine my next move :)

Amarelo - I had a dickhead purplebelt in Brazil apply this to me a year and a half ago and wouldnt let go even after a tapped for like 20 seconds. My ligament above my ankle and knee still hurts from it sometimes. Will this ever go away?


damn man that was messed up..geez tapping for 20 seconds???..i wouldve prob wrecked him in a nasty way for that crap and there is no excuse for this at all.

I was traveling around training at a lot of little hardcore underground gyms. I couldn't really do anything about it bc I didn't know anyone there or how they would react. Come to think of it it was probably more like 10 seconds that he didnt let go(felt like 20). After though I was visibly pissed and looked at the head guy and just shook my head. He was pretty annoyed that his student did that. But it did sideline me for about 3 weeks. Which sucked bc I couldn't surf with that injury either and the waves were bombastic.

After that I didn't visit any gyms unless I had one of my blackbelt instructors to be a guardian. It does help a lot to have someone looking out for you.

deu.. deu.. deu.. deu. deu. deu. deu DEUDEUDEUDEUDEUDEUDEU DEUDEU !!!!!!!! PORRA CARALHO!!!!

(reenactment of the scene)

after i started hearing about rener and his footlock years ago, and hearing bout how no one had an answer for it and he was taking everyone out with it, i started hunting them like crazy. and i won alot of grappling matches because of it. plus at that same time dean lister was really coming up and taking out the top guys with his leg locks. if it werent for those two, i would be lost.

Rener's success with the footlock has to do with him being a skilled grappler who's obviously spent time perfecting the footlock and the fact that most bjj guys SUCK at both defending and applying leglocks in general.

This subject has already been discussed on this forum, but the point is simply that bjj's distaste for leglocks has resulted in bjj guys having a big hole in their game. Sport bjj severely limits the offensive options available to the guy IN the guard, to the point that their best option is to pass the guard first. So as a result, bjj develops highly skilled grapplers in a specific (albeit still fairly wide) gi grappling context.

The hole in bjj that I'm talking about is not limited to just leglocks, but also includes numerous neck cranks, hip locks, arm & leg slicers, wrist locks, etc. Some of these are allowed (for advanced belts) but are rarely developed to their full potential because they tend to be frowned upon.

The main reason for these restrictions is cited as safety, and there certainly is some truth to that. For sure if a neck crank were done maliciously it could cause life-long damage. But I've trained at a few clubs where everything was allowed (think catchwrestling style) and when dealing with mature and safety-minded people, these dangers were greatly minimized.

So in conclusion, bjj (as widely practised) is an awesome grappling art, but it still leaves itself vulnerable to people who practise a more encompassing style of grappling. As such, just about any skilled grappler with a good knowledge of leglocks (like Rener Gracie) will have a decided advantage against the average bjj guy.

Lautaro