DEAR FRIENDS,
AM I WRONG?...
I agree with lkfmdc too, it s a matter of rules... my oppinion also feel like side kick is very effective (in fact it is also my favourite strike) however, for some reasons..we dun see thai boxer use any side kick tech. in muaythai event becoz ..as Khunkao said..it is hard to use with combination.. second i think becoz no one has used it for long time..so even it is being used during the fight..those side kicks wouldnt score any points..in favor of the judge.. I havent seen the event yet, it was live program in thailand..no one taped it for me...
Ercan..though i never train in sanda or any kungfu style..I believe that thay have lowkicks(many kungfu style have)..throw(shuai jiao)..or even wrestling(chinna).. they just improve their quality to be more contact and try to seek their best..... Actually MT also have throwing techniques..they just not being used in sport that much..thats all.....
I read in another forum that China won 5-2. Anyone have details?
Shaolin Tiger, in BOTH events the World Muay Thai Council in Thailand picked the fighters, China had no say. I think China was real smart, the first time they used their best amateurs and asked for modified rules (no elbows, no knees to the head) in order to "test the waters". In the second match, China used their top pros from the King of San Da series and fought under ful rules (elbows, etc). I think China saw weakness that could be exploited from first event and capitalized on it in second event
As much as I love Sanshou/sanda, I think its fair to say that the Chinese are probably stacking the deck by bringing in "fair" thai fighters to fight China's best sanda fighters.
I stand corrected. Its ok to be wrong, as long as you admit it right? Actually that even makes me happier. Hurrah for sanda.
Mr. Ross,
Is there a web-site with more details?
As everyone knows, I love Muay Thai. But I think that San Shou and San Da have distinct advantages over Muay Thai. These two sports excel in the area of Muay Thai's biggest standing weakness... throws and takedowns.
In Muay Thai, there are only a few legal ways to throw your opponent. You are not allowed to throw your opponent over any part of your body, ala Judo. Hip tosses, shoulder tosses, and hooking sweeps are illegal moves. Throws in Muay Thai are, for lack of proper terminology, "twisting" or "spinning" throws. The idea is to get your opponent by moving his pivot points in opposite directions.
For instance, the "throw" that I refer to as the "Steering Wheel". You push up under your opponents arm while pulling down on his head as you pivot. The one pivot point, the head, travels in the opposite direction of another pivot point, the shoulder. Result= Opponent on floor.
San Shou and San Da don't have those restrictions in their throwing game, and the bottom line is that knees and elbows are fine and dandy, but will lose to a throw in most cases.
Khun Kao
Khun Kao,
Has your recent experience with sashou made you more interested in its techniques or do you see its comparison with muay thai as apples and oranges? Would/Will you teach and train sanshou techniques or would that hamper your muay thai fighters going against another MT ? curious...
I am interested in it. Don't get me wrong, first and foremost, I am a Muay Thai coach and will always be a Muay Thai coach. But, I enjoy the fighting system, its an exciting format.
Plus, I have a couple of students who are interested in that format, so I intend to continually encourage them to train for it.
The problem is that I only have a very basic grasp of the sport and will not be able to properly prepare fighters for that type of fighting event. Fortunately, some of my students are well versed in Judo and Sambo, so we will be able to 'make do' to a certain extent. I will teach the striking, and they will take care of the throwing. Jeff's first match taught us a lot about the format and we hope to do even better next time around.
Besides, I know of a number of San Shou players crossing over and fighting Muay Thai, and not doing too badly either! David Ross's Muay Thai fighter did exceptionally well. You would not know that he was not a strict Muay Thai fighter. So why not have more Muay Thai players cross over into San Shou events?
Khun Kao
...anyone know who the Thaiboxers were?
David, Could you list those Judo throws for us?
Thanks.
website? Yeah, but it's in all Chinese :) www.sinowushu.com, have fun LOL! I wish my Chinese was better!
Brooks, sorry we had a confusion on rules last time but I'm glad you didn't have such a bad experience you wouldn't do it again. If your students know Judo terminology, I can tell you which Judo throws score well. Plus, if you want to come up to NY every once and a while and work on San Shou stuff, KEWL BEANS DUDE, I'm up for it... our doors are always open to people with good attitudes.
San Shou fighter Richard Acosta 1st RD KO over Muay Thai opponent. Match was fought under Muay Thai rules, NO THROWS, but Richard KO'd him with kicks. Richard is undefeated in both San Shou and Muay Thai
San Shou figher Yousef Taghizadeh on way to KO'ing his Muay Thai opponent in another Muay Thai, no throws, match
photo speaks for itself
US San Shou champion Marvin Perry, of Boston San Shou team, in yet another Muay Thai match, KO's his Muay Thai opponent in 59 seconds
Though I'm trying to stay out of this pissing contest, I have to back LKFMDC up. His San Shou fighter fought a very tough match in the last NY Showdown against one of Vladimir Borodin's students. LKFMDC's fighter controlled the match and won, under Muay Thai rules. His fighter out-classed his opponent.
Ercan/lkfmdc...
Look, maybe I'm not the most experienced Muay Thai trainer or participant on this board, and definately I'm no 'expert'. But then again, I do know my shit.
Anyway, this argument is pointless. Two fighting systems, each with their own strengths and weaknesses. Which style is better? Neither. It all depends on what you like to do.
In these cross-style matches, the victor has been the fighter who came better prepared for the match, regardless of the rules. What I am seeing is that the Chinese fighters have been the ones who have been doing their homework. Due to San Shou being kept 'underground' for so long, many people are obviously discounting the fighting system. That is their mistake!
Suddenly, the Thai's are finding themselves having to 'think outside of the box', which they apparantly have not needed to do for some time. The Chinese, on the other hand, have come prepared. They are fully aware of, and respect Thai fighters skills, and have obviously prepared themselves. The Thai's have apparantly not. Again I say, their mistake!
This goes back to what I was saying regarding Thai boxing and side kicks. Though the side kick is ineffective for a Thai boxer to use in the ring, that does not make for an ineffective kick. What this means is that the Thai's are going to have to start to adapt their art for these cross-style matches if they intend to remain serious contenders on the world fighting scene.
If a Thai trains pure Muay Thai for a match against his San Shou counterpart, then he deserves to lose the match. I am very willing to bet that the Chinese train Thai-style to beat the Thai.
I have nothing further to say about it.
Khun Kao
hear hear, khun kao
Khun Kao/Brooks/DUDE :)
Clearly, as you have known me on these boards and met me in person, you know that I don't have anything against Muay Thai. Most posts are responses to Ercan's ignorance and insults. He has said a lot of misinformed and insulting things and acts like he knows it all. So I am calling him on it. It isn't an attack on Muay Thai, just Ercan