Results of Nationals

I love Jimmy, but you cannot run a nation wide program around one
guy - if it is for one it is for all.

David

I agree with usaclown completely.

but Ricky, the USA tried that for Sydney (#1 was determined well ahead of time) and they did worse than they did in Atlanta or Barcelona or Soeul, etc.

ie. NO medals in Sydney, whereas you got medals in the other Olympics

We should do what the Japanese do. A panel makes the decision. I would say trials for all weight classes except for Pedro's. Pedro is a favorite to win gold this year based on his A-levels. His nearest competitors can't even win a single match at that level. Everyone else fights at trials.

If I was on such a panel, Pedro goes. He doesn't have time to worry about some guy getting lucky against him in the trials. If i was one of these 4 guys, I would be watching tapes all day and focusing 100% just on Pedro.

well guys last i checked neither jimmy pedro nor brian olsen fought in the nationals this year. so how is having the nationals one month before the trials going to hurt them? we can't accomodate one player and have a trials for the rest of the country. if these two individuals are clearly the #1 players they should have no problem winning the trials right? and if not they aren't clearly the #1. right? you aren't scared they might lose are you?

another thing to think about, brandan greczkowski also had a great tournament in the 2000 olympics, finishing 7th, one match from the medal rounds. since that time no 60kg players have done anything anywhere in the world. do you think that brandan greczkowski should automatically be put on this years team???? or maybe he is in your divsion and you want a trials too.

How can you compare Greczkowski getting 7th 4 years ago to Jimmy winning half a dozen A levels in the year prior to the Olympics?

ricky... i understand that you and clown just want to hand things to jimmy. but, you cant. flat out, you cant. why? becuase the rest of us say so.

they screwed us out of a trials in 2000 and we refuse to have it ever happen again. go and ask all those other people who you know that are going to the trials if they want one... ask carrie if she thinks she deserves the chance considering she's never been ranked as an A or taken a EJU-B medal.. perhaps 57kg should just be between Valerie Gotay and Ellen Wilson..? im sure carrie would go for that.

and im sure that Nate would have no problems with just giving up his opportunity to alex or justin.

fuck, im sure that even way back when kevin asano, bobby berland, swain, morris and pedro were NOT the #1 athletes they would all look you right in the face today and say that if there wouldnt have been a trials they wouldnt have cared... fact, IM sure of that.

get over yourselves. the trials exist in the US becuase its part of what makes being a US Olympian a wonderful thing. you not only earn the right against those people you face overseas but by putting down all challengers on your own soil.

its people like you two, who take things like a trials away and hand shit to people, that ruin judo for the rest of us. there isnt a top-notch country in the world that doesnt have a national trials of some sort.

Jimmy and Jason were able to get rid of the trials in 2000 for their own benefit. This time around Jason was the first person to say he wanted a trials for his athletes. kinda fucked-up, wouldnt you say so?

and.. it isnt opinion.. thats fact.

Josh,

It's like this: You ask the #6 guy who should be invited to trials, he replies "The top 6 guys." Same for #7 and down. Why make the cut off top 5. It's purely arbitrary. Why not just have an open trial where anyone who has a blue and white gi can "give it a shot."

The reason we don't allow just anyone take part in the trials is that there is a chance the person with the highest chance to do well in the Olympics would not be selected. That's why we limit it to just the Top 5.

If we really wanted to do it "the American way," we could just invite anyone who has or could borrow a gi. But we don't.

What it's all about is who we think can best represent the US in the Olympics. I don't think you can honestly say that the 4 guys after Pedro in the rankings have as good of a chance at medaling as Pedro, regardless of whether or not they beat him at trials.

And Japan doesn't have a formal national trials. Some guy won All Japans Weight Class Champs in 2003 but they sent the #2 guy since they thought he would do better against international competition.

Jason Morris is a hypocrite. That's all I have to say about that.

I don't know which is worse. The politics in America judo or the politics that the Jamican bobsled team had to face. Where's John Candy when you need him.

world and olympic champions LOSE all the time.

and LMFAO at the statment that the others at 73kg havent won in europe. chuck, ryan, and i think orly have all taken at least a bronze in european-A's during this quad. chuck is also a 2x pan-am champion and orly is a pan-am champion while ryan has won the british.

now, if you want to talk HYPOTHETICALS...

Chuck's tenure as #1 in 2003 going into the EJU-A levels was cut short by the war in iraq when he was getting ready to go to rome and estonia before the state department advised all americans to remain in the US and the team was cancelled. had he the chance to attend the other 2 A's you do not know what the results would have been. For all we know, its possible that he would have maintained the #1 spot through the US Open, gone to Korea and medaled (as he did take 5th the prior year) and then possibly even be #1 today-- or much closer to Jimmy than he is.

but, i guess that is why we have these things called judo tournaments... players have to show up and fight and see what happens.

and.. LMAO. what athlete meeting did you attend? oh, i forgot. NONE... cause you wouldnt assume that Brian Olsen is against a trials-- he is 100% for it. his only issues was wanting a placing in the top-7 to secure the olympic spot, but we settled on medals only instead.

why dont you go and ask Jimmy if he thinks its BS to fight in the trials when he fully knows that the other guys in the division are giving him a really, really hard time.. i cant think of a better tournament prepreation for anybody than a tough-ass 3 to 5 matches against guys who you are barely beating or guys who you've lost to from your own country.

proof.. he beat orly by some very BS/questionable calls the last 2 times.. ryan is 1-2 with him, and chuck-- well, we all know that.

so, why hand it over? earn it.

Clown, a medal would be the thing that helps us the most in all facits
of USA JUDO, however as i stated earlier this type of thinking is what
has brought us to the point that we have no real depth in our divisions
(outside of 73). I go with the Brazilian method of 4-8 trials in a year.
You have no choice but to break your ass all the time. There is no way
you can tell me that the Brazilian's don't have a system that works -
they are always up there for medals. They have great financial bonuses
as well. Flavio Canto was telling me how great it is for you if you are
winning. Building a whole system is what the USA needs. We have
spent enough time and effort building particular athletes and they have
done well but when they retire we are F.U.B.A.R.

If Jimmy wins the trials and goes to Athens I will be the first guy
cheering him on (behind his dad of course), but we must put together
the whole package because building for one is just bad development.
We need the whole system.

David

um, guys, so someone please explain what happens now and when?
I'm guessing the top 5 go to the Olympic Trials (when?) and then they face off round robbin until they get a #1 in each division?
How come there are 2 #5s in the weight class where Mark Fletcher is #5? Anyone know how his matches went? Thanks!

Folks were asking why forfeit?

I don't know about all but I spoke with Mark Fletcher and he indicated
that his fight with Micah would have proven nothing insofar as the
trials were concerned and that he knew that for years Micah had been
coming to practice and had not gone home with national results and he
felt why do that when he didn't need it for the trials. "Let him have it,
he deserves it." sounded kind of classy to me.

David

I've personally taken offense to some of these postings!!

Jimmy is not the ONLY MEDAL hope that we have in the US in Judo. After my last Pan Am tournament I was right in there with the bronze medallist in the World. Jimmy has been beaten by Ippon by two other persons in his weight class in the U.S. and the other one had him beat single handedly in the New York Open and he didn't get the calls Jimmy would have gotten.

The trials are good for everybody. No matter what time you pick for the trials people are going to complain. You have a training issue, a timing issue, injury issues, etc.,. For those that are fighting, GOOD LUCK, for those that aren't fighting - Cheer on the ones who you want to see win. And for those of you who don't have any intention on fighting - sit, back, relax, shut up, and enjoy the trials and the Olympic Games!

Everybody trains hard, through injuries, pain, etc.,. It is disrespectful for anyone to say that we don't need a trials because someone has a lot of points. It is also disrespectful to argue with someone who fights on a National and international level day in and out and practices in such a fashion to do so. Let's have good quality discussions and grow and mature intellectually. We are here to build, not tear down, we get enough of that on the mat and in the gym.

Rhadi Ferguson

"Hard work will beat talent, when talent refuses to work hard."

so.. instead of workin in a system that has developed the likes of berland, swain, asano, wanag, olsen and ogaswara in the 80's and early 90's we should just go with what jimmy and jason say becuase well--- they happen to be the two names of recent years so they must know whats best for everybody involved.

thats so stupid its almost funny. thinking like that is what screwed everybody over in 2000 and it is also what created this huge crater between jimmy and jason and the rest of US Judo's athletes who at the very least want nothing more than a fair shot.

if you dont think a trials is a good prep event for the olympics then you are crazy as well. only the best refs will be on the mat, only the best athletes we have. at -73kg every single one of those guys-- orly, jose, ryan and chuck-- all can go out there and give jimmy one hell of a run, if not get the W.

someday you will be a coach or a top-5 athlete who is busting your ass off to get the the games as best you can. maybe the trials will be the highest point you ever reach, or youll fall just shy like i did.. either way, you'll appreciate the opportunity to try and compete with the best. as a coach you want your athletes to have these chances becuase you know what it can mean to them for the rest of their lives.

taking that away.. is total bullshit.

big congrats as well a former dojo mate big Greg for taking 1st in the master's division as well!

Clown-

Am I correct in saying your biggest issue with the trials is the timing?

clowns biggest issue with a trials is the fact that s/he is a complete jockrider whenever it comes to pedro or morris and he cant think for himself.

Someone on here said...if you ask the #6, or #7 athletes who should be in the trials they would say top six or top seven. Well I can't speak of everyone in US Judo but I happen to fall in that catagory and no I don't think I deserve to be in the trials. I clearly didn't make the criteria so the top 5 will fight it out and I will watch.

The trials were decided on by the athletes a couple years ago, and that's the way it is. Thank you Rhadi for posting something worth reading. Finally some logic.

Timing is definitely the biggest thing wrong with this year's trials. The Olympic team should have a minimum of 6 months to prepare for the Olympics. If it's decided early, the athletes have time to prepare for, resarch and compete against the world's competition.

Imagine this....the USA Olympic Team goes into the spring European and Asia Pac big tournaments TOGETHER! That way, they have a chance to film competition, test international waters, build repetoir with their coaches, push each other etc.

This crap of a trials 8 weeks before the olympics is BS. Everybody stays completely internally focused on the trials until about 2 weeks after they are over (hometown news articles, TV interviews on Evening Magazine etc). Then, Oh Shit! I have the olympics in 6 weeks!!! What am I going to do?!!!

By that point they are more worried about getting their family tickets than they are about watching videos with coaches of all the guys from the X-astan countries...and worrying about how to beat the Georgian team.

Trials are good...ranking systems that limit it to the top 5 or so (throw a dart in the top 10 to get the best number) are good. Just give the guys some time to develop as a team, and as world competitors before we send them to the wolves in the Olympics.

DJ

P.S. I love it when Josh's panties get in a bunch