it was a very effective move in early ufc's, but then fell out of favor because everyone knew how to escape the ones being applied then.
of course you had some like pequeno that continued to use it with great success.
Who was responsible for the modification of it to work in mma again?
marcelinho's new series has a tape on it - revolutionary in itself! digs up pequeno instructional
Still as effective as ever, so many times you see fighters get the neck with one arm in as well, which isn't a guillotine, and sit there and crank the hell out of it,they don't hook the neck alone and often don't lock up one of their opponent's legs to prevent escape.
alex franca nog seems to land it MORE when he has the arm in. it's definitely a sub. getting half gward on the same side leg as their trapped arm is key tho
Effective and still pronounced wrong by American commentators :(
I've noticed more fighters seems to understand how to finish with one arm in nowadays.
^I havnt seen anyone outside the Renzo team do it with regular success
What are the details that make the arm in Guillotine to work better? I know to punch your arm in deep but i seen guys get finished with the arm around the head not deep.what are you guys thoughts on this?
back in the day, i think the guillotine was more of a neck crack or tracheal crush (air choke) as used by the pat smiths and ken shamrocks.
TTT
TTT for the GEETINEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Marcus Hicks and Joe Stevenson use it like it's going out of style!
"o many times you see fighters get the neck with one arm in as well, which isn't a guillotine"
A lot of very high level BJJ guys prefer the arm in, I think Mario Sperry even has an instructional on it on Youtube. You are probably right though.
Gill-oh-teen
My 3 wins by sub are all guillotines...
My skinny forearms help me get under the neck well:}
" back in the day, i think the guillotine was more of a neck crack or tracheal crush (air choke) as used by the pat smiths and ken shamrocks."
well, your thinking would be wrong... it was that way for them because they werent doing it right
One of the high percentage subs in MMA today. It does amaze me how many people tap to them with little or no defense, but I am not the one in the cage fighting so I really cant judge.
Bill Mahoney - I've noticed more fighters seems to understand how to finish with one arm in nowadays.
Exactly. With learning that they are more aggressive going for it now
BUFFGEO - ^I havnt seen anyone outside the Renzo team do it with regular success
Rani Yahya finishes damn near everyone with it. NoGi Sub Grappling, and in MMA.
Honestly, guys like Marcelo and Rani are the guys to watch finishing chokes in MMA. I hope they actually finish guys more with the same chokes they finish in their grappling matches.
The Fig-4 guillatine is insanely tight if you can lock it up. I.E. Pulver/Swanson.
The guillatine done right with or without the arm can be very effective, unfortunately there are very few people in MMA that know the finer points of the guillatine. Though I think this is true with most submissions.