This may sound crazy, but hear me out. It seems like I encounter people that refuse to tap, regardless of the type submission hold I put on them. I dont want to break some one's arm just to prove a point, so I usually ease off, when i am grappling with such a retard. This one guy told me: "I aint tapping for nobody". Do you all think that is plain out retarded? It is my theory, that the only type person that doesnt tap out, would be someone that is not mentally stable, because the tapping response seems almost involuntary when put under the stress of a submission hold. I myself have a high threshold of pain, but when i feel my bones and tendons starting to pop, I understand that it is time to tap. What do you all think?
Go to a choke and *carefully* put them out. This will not hurt them if you are conscienscious. When they wake up, it's time for a safety talk with the instructor (or if you are the instructor, then you give them the talk). They need to understand that 1) tapping is a part of training, and it isn't about ego, and 2) tapping is for THEIR safety, and they need to do it for their own health. Ask them what will happen next time when it's an armlock, not a choke. Get them to understand what's really at stake here.
Not tapping is stupid and dangerous, and it doesn't prove anything. Help them see that.
~TT
Sounds retarded to me.
Ben R.
There's a bigger issue here. Anyone not smart enough to look out for themselves CAN'T look out for you. Stop rolling with the retard before he hurts you.
On the lighter side, find some of Gene Lebell's ouch that hurts stuff that doesn't actually threaten physical damage and see if he gets the point.
Steve Lafrate
Back in the day, I used to pop their arm, ankle, whatever, then I realized it is much more fun to just let go and start over..
The guys who won't tap get really pissed and will be like "Hey I didnt tap"..You dont say anything and just keep doing it everytime you catch them with something...Soon it will start to crack you up because they will get so pissed..
They start thinking "This motherfucker thinks he's better than me" and it will drive him crazy..
Judo, gotta love it.
Not necessarily retard but certainly egotistical.
I armbarred this guy at a shiai and felt his arm pop a couple of times before he dragged me off the mat.
I asked if he was OK after I beat him and he said "I'm not much for tapping."
I said "I'd rather tap than be out for six months because I needed elbow surgery," and walked off while he iced his elbow down.
Met him in another division later on and flying armbarred the same arm. He tapped that time.
His coach later told him they'd work on armbar escapes....
"Gene Lebell's ouch that hurts stuff that doesn't actually threaten physical damage "
what kind of stuff would this be?
my training partners are real cool when it comes to armlocks. they will hold the position tight & give me like 1 second to escape, after that one second they'll crank or i'll tap if i can't find the escape. other than that i can tolerate a choke.
I like MM's take on this and I don't know why this tap or snap attitude has to come to the dojo; egos need to be checked in at the door. If you're training partners isn't the idea to help each other? In a lot of dojos, it's not even courteous to fully extend the arm. When you get an armlock, you know you got it, he knows you got it; why not just release and transition to something else.
Without seeming like I'm taking a potshot, this whole tapping thing seems to be more prevalent in the bjj community than in judo. I't's got to create a pecking order in the dojo and be counterproductive. Eventually you won't want to roll with anyone who can tap you because you don't want to be seen tapping ??
Sojourner is correct. "Never stop tapping - tapping means learning." - Erik Paulson
Jeff
it is really quite simple for me...if i have it in, they know and so do i, that is all that counts..i don't have to go until they scream..and the reverse applies for me too, if they have it on, i know it, i would rather have an acknowledgement that it is on, and the move was successful and everyone knows, rather than a re-enactment of a famous match where someone stands up and says "he knows i didn't tap"..but in all fairness, that is a time one should tap.. :)
Pride goeth before a broken arm!
Their mom must have told them "never give up son!"
Nice post Sojourner. I agree. Same to Wayland.
Ben R.
I'm with Wayland. I tap to any sub that is legitimately in. If I don't think the choke, armlock, whatever is in, I'll do my best to fight out: not doing so would be doing a disservice to myself and my training partners. I may seem like a hardass sometimes, but I think that's because many people are nervous and tap to loose subs. But I definitely try to recognize any sub that is 'sunk' and tap to it.
Greg
I agree with most of you guys. The folks who look at randori or free sparring as a contest instead of practice are missing the point, in my opinion. When I tap because my opponent has a choke on me, I'm telling him "Yeah, you got that choke on, it was working." Now he knows when he's doing the technique correctly. If it's a contest, then sure, I'll fight as long as I can...but that's a different situation.
And yeah, if you choose injury over tapout when you're just rolling in the class at practice, you're a fool...and probably a dangerous one.
Just my opinion, though.
Welcome, Kevin :)
Hey Kevin, welcome to the forum. Richard didn't follow you, did he?
Ben R.
When i was kid(11years) our club went Russia (Soviet Union) to train and learn new stuff. So once there we were training chokes with russian kids. And they had this crazy "no tapping" policy.. Every time you tried to choke them they didnt tap untill they were allmost unconsious. And we were just training. it was really scary and dangerous.