Reviews for Legal Pain?

Anybody buy Jake's new revised edition of Wade Schalles' "Legal Pain" instructional? Is it good? Looks great, I just want to see what other people have to say about it.

I echo nowadyos points. Nice job by Jake. The material is more suited to the "wrestling" portion of submission wrestling, but there is some material applicable to sub wrestling in all it's permutations (chin pick and head wrap come to mind). Nice stuff.

I can't wait. I just ordered my self a copy! I'm excited!

I really liked the Legal Pain set, with the bonus DVD of Wade's seminar in LA.

Anyone considering buying the set needs to keep in mind that this is not a submission-based series: you're not going to learn the newest (or oldest, for this forum) submissions here. What you WILL learn are a lot of body positioning principles that will allow you use the core submissions you already know. And as the name of the series implies: the positions that Schalles shows are very, very uncomfortable, almost to the point of being submissions themselves. His tricks on doubling your weight, the bio-mechanics of pain, and other secrets of painful top control are designed to make your opponent think about one thing: how to make the miserable discomfort stop as fast as possible. When he's thinking that way, he's about 2 seconds away from being pinned (or for most us, tapped).

There are a few sections that don't translate very well from amateur wrestling to submission grappling, such as the load-ups. Also, when attacking the referee's position, the opponent is always fairly upright with his head up and arms out in front. This is fine for amateur wrestling, but is verboten in BJJ/sub grappling, as you will be choked out immediately. So, many of the attacks against that position are of limited usefulness (all though not all of them: the Clock Theory principles will knock a guy over from a tight turtle position just as well as the referee's position, I've found). But things like the chop tight waiste and the bar arms are exponentially more difficult against opponents who don't mind going to their backs to continue the fight, or who turtle up very tightly and don't give you a limb to work on. This may be self-evident to most, but caution is still warranted: the primary audience is amateur wrestlers, and you'll have to use your creative mind to see how the techniques can be adapted to hooking.

Now that I've said that, there ARE a lot of great things for the submission game here. The chin twist pick entry is shown from a variety of positions, and this f*cker hurts. A lot. Be careful with this one, as I twisted my brother's neck a little too hard and the next day he was really sore. The power and leverage this technique provides is fantastic! Less potent but still very cool is the Head Wrap Half technique to that Wade shows as a more acceptable option than the chin twist pick, which apparently is on its way to being banned, presumably from one too many neck injuries.

Another move that I have found extremely effective is the front headlock take down. If you ever start on your knees in a grappling situation, this one works beautifully. I had been trying to do this effectively for awhile and had minimal success. Wade shows the little keys that I was missing, and now I use this about 80% of the time when starting from neutral knees. I used it just last night against a black belt and he went right over like a felled tree, directly into scarf hold (he got out and whipped my ass after that, but that's not Wade's fault).

Disc Three of the set is one of the most interesting instructional sections I've ever seen: it's all on leg wrestling, the defining characteristic of many old-time catch wrestling gods. Tons of entries and attacks shown, as well as some escapes and counters. I need to watch this a few more times before I can really appreciate this disc. I don't have a very sophisticated game when it comes to getting the hooks in, so a lot of this was new to me. Definitely a gold-mine of information though.

I also really, REALLY like the spladle. This move is hard describe, but basically anytime you get single-legged, you have a chance to end the match then and there if you can remember to spladle 'em. Wade's little come hither to a stubborn opponent's leg is priceless, I laughed out loud at it. There a few other submissions shown as well: a calf-compression (very easy to get off the leg rides that are shown), the head-and-arm choke, a sneaky-shoulder lock, and a couple others as well.

This set gets a high recommendation from me. This set made me think hard and re-examine my whole game. Like I said, I didn't learn very many dazzling new submssions, but what I did learn is how to punish a guy and make him want to quit, at which point almost any submission will work. I would recommend this to anyone in this forum.

Shad,what a fantastic review of it,and after watching it myself,it is a review that explains it perfectly.Well said.

Thanks for taking the time to review it so thoroughly!

I have the original VHS set of Legal Pain and I have to say it is the best wrestling set I've ever seen. It is also very adaptable to submission which is why I love it so much. The newer DVD version is probably much better as well so get it! Great review shadallion!

That was a great review Shadallion.

Shadallion ... well done. EVERYTHING I have from Scientific Wrestling is GREAT! I am certain Legal Pain will be no different.

I just got mine in the mail. Frome what I've seen thus far, this set rocks! It is filled with so much information in just a portion of one dvd I could only imagine how much is on the others. This is one of the best sets I've picked up in a while!


Whats on the drawing board for you as far as instructionals are concerned?

Well we have Mark Fleming's weight training program that was just released a couple days ago, then we have Mark Schultz's last submission clinic after that. We also have Wade's cradle series coming up as well. Depending on Josh's schedule, his should be ready in early/mid 2007 too... On the fight footage side, we have Real BKB 2 and PWFG 2 coming and hopefully a few more too.


Damn you! I'm gonna have a hard time keeping up with all the DVD's! =) Keep up the great work!

Will Wade's cradle series be focused on the pin, like Legal Pain, or will it be more grappling/MMA targeted?


It will be on pinning but we may add a few of his thoughts on applications
for grappling, MMA, and self-defence...

I went to visit the parents for the holidays and there was a copy of legal pain waiting for me. I tore it open and with a pair of former D1 wrestlers (current wrestling coaches) started watching. In kind of a complete aside to what this forum is, if you have anything to do with folkstyle/scholastic wrestling, you must own these tapes. All three of us agreed that Wade's tapes have something you rarely see these days, which is always moving for the finish. He's not showing techniques for riding time, to control until you can set up an escape/takedown chain, it's pure finishing. This is something that is often forgotten about in folkstyle and it was a breath of fresh air to watch.

From a submission wrestling standpoint, it was equally as good. On the first tape, the overall body positioning applies, as well as the whizzer series and the positioning with a nelson. I'm a huge proponent of a nelson as a submission, so this tape was great to see. The second tape had some great techniques as well, with a counter to a switch I had never seen before anywhere. But the third tape is where most people who do not have a folkstyle background will benefit. Not only does he show great entries, but also shows a number of preventative measures which translate directly into the turtle position.

Overall, coach Schalles comes off as one of the classiest individuals to step on the mat, and truly is a credit to the sport.

Awesome to hear!

I just finished disc 1 from the new revised Legal Pain set and this is not only an amazing original product but the improvements are also astounding. You not only get the original material from 25 years ago but Wade's current material, as after each original section there is new added footage with Wade now (25 years later) covering improvements he has since developed. The first disc alone was two hours long and this is a four disc set.

 I know this sounds like an ad but this may just become my new favorite set of all time.

It's pretty damn good.

It's also entertaining to see the sober, serious Wade of yester-year juxtaposed with the zany, kooky Wade of today.