Why don't all the catch wrestling practitioners and fans start having catch competitions to promote the art?
Do it the old fashion way, in a ring with ropes. You can win by pin or by submission. All catch techniques allowed: hammerlocks, double wrist locks, top wrist locks, short arm scissors, full nelsons, step over toe holds, head scissors, etc. No chokes though. The classic catch rules.
Maybe one day it can become professional, like the real pro-wrestling promotion, except that all those catch techniques are allowed.
What do you all think?
Love to see it. Probably won't happen until more people learn the style. P.S I wanna wear a mask
I think thats brilliant!!!
I think it's a good idea, but you might be putting the cart before the horse. (humblest apologies for using corny cliche)
I think first you would need to increase interest in general, get a couple of different gyms/schools going, THEN start having competitions. Right now, we've got, what...? A few dozen semi-serious catch wrestlers in the country?
You've only really got one serious catch gym, and a couple of loosely affiliated clubs (not to mention widely geographically dispersed - I think the affiliate clubs are in LA, Boston, and Orlando). That's really not much of a base to draw competitors from.
I think you would probably need to have at least 20 SERIOUS catch gyms to get the necessary density of competitors. Think about it - in a lot of boxing gyms, wrestling clubs, bjj schools, whatever - about 2/3 of the people are there just to train and workout. They aren't there to compete (for whatever reason, be it lack of time, family/work demands, or whatever). They just want to train for fun/fitness/self-defense, etc.
Maybe Tony could start setting up franchises or something...? Hey! I got an idea! Bruce - you could open up his first franchise here in DC!
:)
But still, I like the idea anodize!
This is something I've been seriously thinking about. I have been constantly bringing it up over at the Real Pro Wrestling board but I think it would be better to start a promotion independently first. Email me if you're serious (and I think masks should be allowed too) @ evolver73@yahoo.com
Not all catch historically involved pins, and not all catch historically involved submissions. Although most of the time it involved both. reference: matches of Ad Santell, especially in Japan.
Um, you guys are joking about the masks, right?
I sure hope that the masks are a joke. We don't want any of the spectacle that is associated with the WWE type of "wrestling." Everything has to be serious, legit, and real.
As for the pins and submissions issue, we should have consistent rules to again, preventing it from becoming a spectacle.
It would be great to see an event featuring the athletes trained by Tony C. vs. the ones trained by Matt F. to see whose camp is better. (But please don't turn this thread into a "Matt Furey sucks" one, okay?)
I'm originally from Arizona and on one of my trips down a ways into Mexico I bought a very cool handmade Luche Libre mask. I was suprised at how comfortable it was. If I can't wear a mask can I at least have a gorgeous female valet?
(clarification: I was joking about the mask)
I would wear a leopardskin loincloth and wrestle barefoot, a la Jimmy "Superfly" Snuka.
FEAR ME!!!!
Leave pins out, if a guy loses to a pin then it wont be a big deal, haveing a man tape before his spine cracks or hip pops out is convincing.
And NO POINT SYSTEM, let it end in a concession hold.
So if you're leaving pins out - it's no longer catch wrestling, it's something different. If you don't have any point system - what do you do with two very evenly matched opponents? Let them go for 14 hours until one of them falls asleep?
You need a point system, and keep the element of pinning and back points.
I agree with Chip. Pinning and back points need to be kept in; the heart of CACC is wrestling after all.
Without pins it changes the entire game. Most or at least many catch holds are designed to attack a man who is "turtled" or hugging the mat because he couldn't roll to his back.
My study of the history of the sport leads me to believe that pinning and not submission was the more common means of victory by far. In fact I know of only one case of a true catch match ending in an actual tap-out (Roller-Lewis) although several including one fall between Gotch - Hackenschmidt ended by verbal retirement.
You lose the excitement which would be generated by a submissions inclussive match in which you have to work to stay off your back if you remove pins. These rules should make the contest more spectator friendly than a regular sub-wrestling match. Some old catch matches became hugging contest (Lewis-Stecher / 1st Gotch-Hackenschmidt for example) but I believe that could be resolved rather easily.
I think you would find many people other than those calling themselves pure "catch-wrestlers" entering these contest if they were held. I believe that they could be rather successfull in fact.
OK, pins will be allowed. ;)
I just hate the submission grappling point system that some guys use to win. I believe in going all out to try and submit someone.
Does anyone know if Tony C. has thought of organizing such an event? All the members of the ICWA can take part, as well as anyone else that is interested. If he hasn't thought of it, can someone recommend it to him, please?!
Well, we thought of that for this past summer but sadly only a handful of our ICWA members showed interest so we decided to scrap the idea. No sense trying to pull that together without enough support.
Damn, that sucks