It will work.
You'll get sub wrestlers (especially those with wrestling backgrounds) and folks with pure wrestling backgrounds as well.
How do I know? It's been done. Untill recentley a pro wrestling school in Morristown Tenn. hosted a "shoot" tournament about twice a year (Mr. Fuji was a judge (Judo background) rules were catch.
Three second pin. Subs except rear choke (other chokes legal / rear too easy when defending the pin) no point system but winner awarded by judges decision after a time limit.
They got a pretty good turnout each time. Offered a little prize money, that helped.
S'up Jakewrestler!
I am all for Catch competitions and have made a few posts on the RPW board about it.
I say keep the pins in and I am undecided about the points. I am leaning more towards win by pin or hook ONLY.
I am also for allowing chokes.
TTT for CW tourneys!
Ausgepicht! How are you doing my friend? Bill C.
Allowing both the rear naked and pins actually takes away much of the excitement. There are alot of other attacks to use against a "turtled" opponent or one "hugging" the mat, many of which are very different than what is commonly seen in sub-wrestling events and would give the events their own personality. It is also almost impossible to defend against both pins and the rear naked.
Why not use the existing, extensive Wrestling network (HS, college, clubs) to propagate the submissions aspect?
CalmDog:
I think you will find that coaches, parents, etc are not going to big supporters of anything dealing with submission. Most schools (High schools in particular) are not going to be in support because of the liability issues. Also many coaches and wrestlers are going to think that catch would be a distraction. If you are a serious wrestler that is a full time job.
I think college coaches are not going to want the kids that are on scholarship to risk getting hurt. There are enough injuries in college wrestling without hooks. The last thing a college coach wants is his star wrestler sitting on the bench with a blown elbow.
Just to make it clear I am very much in favor of catch tournaments. I have Tony C's LAOH tapes and love them. My son also competed in submission and BJJ tournaments from the age of 12 to 15. But when my son decided that he wanted to be a state wrestling champ he gave up BJJ/submission wrestling to concentrate on Folkstyle in the winter and Freestyle/Greco in the spring and summer. He says that he would like to get back into submission matches but just doesn't have the time until his college wrestling is over.
I think his attitude is very common for the serious high school wrestlers. He also quit football his senior year. Once he decided that wrestling was his future he gave up everything other than wrestling.
I think that chokes should be allowed, too. In Farmer Burns book, he said that, at the time his book was written, the strangle hold was "now" banned. That means that at one point it was allowed.
Carlos Newton submitted Pat Miletech with a "strangle hold," although this was the UFC and now catch wrestling.
My point is that by allowing the rear naked you not only make it hard for a man to protect his shoulders but also take away opportunities for some lesser known subs like the step over toehold which is meant to attack a man who is turtled (under leg sth) or hugging mat (over leg sth). There are also some cool footlocks that are unique to "catch" because they attack a "turtled" man.
You won't see much of these moves with the rear naked legal because people won't give their back very often and when they do the attack will usually be the rear naked. This prevents the sport from developing it's own identity.
Good news! Real Pro Wrestling is considering submissions! "A longer pin count and submission holds are also under consideration as added elements." This is from their website and is also at the Abu Dhabi news site (courtesy of Eddie Goldman).
Along with freestyle and Greco techniques, you can get points by pushing your opponent out of the ring, ala sumo or amateur sanshou.
It's great that they are considering submissions. It's a change in tune, probably considering the NHB/MMA market as well as wanting to make it more exciting, because previously they had said that they weren't going to do it.
I hope that they recognize that catch has many techniques that were eventually made illegal over the years and allow these again (full nelson, toe holds, hammer locks, double wrist locks, head scissors, short arm scissors, etc.)
Nice, you can see me ALL over the RPW boards bugging them for catch stule rules! Awesome news Anodize!
Yes it is!
Of course, if it does happen, that means that you catch guys would have to compete with the likes of Cael Sanderson..... Good luck!
There are a few more Catch Wrestlers out there, but they are few and far between.
Scuff - didn't catch matches also end in injury?
STH, I'm sure many did. According to Frank Gotch the Flying Mare throw actually resulted in more ring deaths and serious injury than any other move. Yeah that surprised me too.
Mike Chapman (International Wrestling Museum) once told me that Hackenschmidt screamed out "don't break it!" twice when Gotch caught him in a toe-hold. Strangler Lewis broke Dr. B.F. Roller's ribs with a scissors, but Roller offically tapped. The only case of a match being recorded as a tap-out win that I am aware of.
Wow, that's an awesome story about Hackenschmidt. Damn.