canuck34 - Rewatch Mir/Lesnar 2 again.I do need to re-watch that fight for balance.
Mir landed some strikes on Lesnar, and as soon as he did Brock went for the takedown and was happy to just pound him out from half guard. No way he'll be able to hold Carwin down and pound him from half guard like he did with Mir.
Mir also made some really stupid mistakes in there. He landed a nice elbow on Brock and instead of backing off and working his standup he went for the clinch. Stupid.
No doubt Brock dominated Mir, but I don't think he landed a single punch and only landed two feeble leg kicks while standing.
You could tell that he was 100% looking for the half guard or side control because the one time he took Mir down and Mir got ready to get full guard Brock backed off and let him up.
Also, inexplicably, Mir tried to go for the same switch on Brock that Silva used on Marquart when Marquart had a single leg. Why on earth would he try that on BROCK FREAKING LESNAR? Sure enough he ended up on the bottom barely in half guard. Another dumb mistake that Carwin would not make.
"Carwin's wrestling looked far from unbelievable against Gonzaga"
What are you talking about? It was a wrestling match for about 10 seconds and a very rocked Carwin nearly defended a single leg and once taken down easily got out from under Gonzaga without taking any further damage.
Carwin/Gonzaga is one of the fights that really makes MMA so exciting. I love that the entire pace of a fight can be turned around in a split second. The crowd was going nuts for Gonzaga hurting Shane, then all of the sudden fights over. You have to love a sport where it only takes a second to change the outcome.
"He got rocked very hard by some weak ass shots from Mir"
I love this ridiculous myth that Brock got "rocked very hard" by Mir. He showed virtually no reaction to knees directly to his chin and just kept working for the takedown.
Yeah, I agree orcus, I just rewatched it and Brock didn't get rocked at all. Only thing I saw was that he really didn't want to get hit so whenever Mir came forward Brock dropped for the clinch/takedown. Only shot that Mir landed well was the elbow. It didn't rock Brock but it did seem to get his attention.
Canuck,
His wrestling didn't look great in that fight (I admit it wasn't long enough to thorougly evaluate his wrestling). He was strong enough to get up after getting taken down in the first seconds of the fight (he is certainly strong and a solid wrestler but not unbelievable-that's just a clear exageration). Do you think that Gonzaga would be able to do that to wrestlers the calibre of Couture, Coleman, GSP, or Lesnar in the beginning of the first round of a fight? I seriously doubt it. That's my point. He is not as good of a wrestler as Lesnar from what I can see but time will tell.
100% Agreed. Idk why he got the title shot...I think there are plenty of other HW's that would deserve it over him. He's beaten one guy that's decent but Gonzaga is fighting in prelims now. I know Brock didn't deserve the shot either, but he has proved that he did after beating Couture then Mir.
What i don't like about Lesnar-Carwin is the extremely high likelihood it either ends quickly, or is a one-sided fight after one guy gets a takedown and GNPs the other guy into oblivion.
The heavyweight division is the BEST when you have a long, protracted battle for the title (see Couture-Rizzo I). These huge, powerful guys are entertaining in the short-term but to really see a full comparison of skills you need to rely on 155ers. The heavies are just too damn big and powerful to really get a good expression of their relative skills...it ends too fast for the most part.
BUFFGEO -jpm995 - Have to agree with poster, Lesnar should be a heavy favorite. Size, more accomplished wrestler, probably better athlete, better training camp should equel win. With Carwin's power he does have a legit chance though.
Well, theyre about the same size, Carwins athletic accomplishments are definatley at comparable , If you think Minn Martial arts is better then Greg Jacksons your out of your fuckin mind...
about the only thing correct in this thread is Lesner was a higher division wrestler and Carwin has a chance at the KO
both of which have nothing to do with that other mis information anyway
Jackson's is great. IMO, it's #1 right now. But Carwin is training in Colorado.
JMO, but for heavyweights, finding great training partners is difficult, and great camps don't always have the depth of HW training partners.
Lesnar has more big, quality HWs at his disposal than anyone. And he can bring in any specialists he needs. That's the advantage of his situation.
"Jackson's is great. IMO, it's #1 right now. But Carwin is training in Colorado."
Carwin went down to Jacksons when the fight was announced to set the gameplan with Greg. Same way that GSP does it. Get the gameplan from Jackson. Train at your home gym with Jackson guys flying in to help out. Jackson joins the camp closer to the fight date for last minute stuff.
GSP does his training mostly in montreal with Firas. He goes to NM early on, then Jackson joins near the fight.
Carwin is training regularly with Marquart etc...
Hardcharger -BUFFGEO -jpm995 - Have to agree with poster, Lesnar should be a heavy favorite. Size, more accomplished wrestler, probably better athlete, better training camp should equel win. With Carwin's power he does have a legit chance though.
Well, theyre about the same size, Carwins athletic accomplishments are definatley at comparable , If you think Minn Martial arts is better then Greg Jacksons your out of your fuckin mind...
about the only thing correct in this thread is Lesner was a higher division wrestler and Carwin has a chance at the KO
both of which have nothing to do with that other mis information anyway
Jackson's is great. IMO, it's #1 right now. But Carwin is training in Colorado.
JMO, but for heavyweights, finding great training partners is difficult, and great camps don't always have the depth of HW training partners.
Lesnar has more big, quality HWs at his disposal than anyone. And he can bring in any specialists he needs. That's the advantage of his situation.
I am going to assume you just do not know how the deal works out here with Wittman/Jackson. Nate Marquardt, Carwin, Cowboy, etc are all part of team Jackson and live out here. The heavies Carwin has to train with are Brendan Schaub and James McSweeney both are on TUF right now. Trust me, there is no better camp to train with than who Carwin is training with right now. He is working BJJ with Amal Easton out here, stand up with Wittman, and Bang, wrestling with the UNC wrestling team, he is in very good hands. Brocks camp is NOWHERE NEAR THAT OF CARWIN.
303
I for one have not been impressed with Brock's speed standing at all. I don't think he is quicker than Gonzaga or Randy, let alone guys like Mirko, Fedor and Randleman.
Brock said he got rocked when Mir kneed him on the chin.
carwins training camp is hands down going to be better than lesnar. lesnar doesnt have a ko shot, heath got crushed by the first punch and dominated for the whole fight and still didnt get finished, carwin ko'd gonzaga with 1/2 a right hand. lesnar is faster, prob a better wrestler but with someone his size i dont think he can be as dominate. i think carwin takes this one rather easily.
a believed Carwin has a decent chance before i rewatched that fight in normal quality, now i think carwin can only win by hail marry punch, like he did against Gonzaga.
303 -Isn't Waterman a big part of his training camp for Brock also?Hardcharger -BUFFGEO -jpm995 - Have to agree with poster, Lesnar should be a heavy favorite. Size, more accomplished wrestler, probably better athlete, better training camp should equel win. With Carwin's power he does have a legit chance though.
Well, theyre about the same size, Carwins athletic accomplishments are definatley at comparable , If you think Minn Martial arts is better then Greg Jacksons your out of your fuckin mind...
about the only thing correct in this thread is Lesner was a higher division wrestler and Carwin has a chance at the KO
both of which have nothing to do with that other mis information anyway
Jackson's is great. IMO, it's #1 right now. But Carwin is training in Colorado.
JMO, but for heavyweights, finding great training partners is difficult, and great camps don't always have the depth of HW training partners.
Lesnar has more big, quality HWs at his disposal than anyone. And he can bring in any specialists he needs. That's the advantage of his situation.
I am going to assume you just do not know how the deal works out here with Wittman/Jackson. Nate Marquardt, Carwin, Cowboy, etc are all part of team Jackson and live out here. The heavies Carwin has to train with are Brendan Schaub and James McSweeney both are on TUF right now. Trust me, there is no better camp to train with than who Carwin is training with right now. He is working BJJ with Amal Easton out here, stand up with Wittman, and Bang, wrestling with the UNC wrestling team, he is in very good hands. Brocks camp is NOWHERE NEAR THAT OF CARWIN.
303
I believe so. Not really sure. I know Ron has trained with both of them. Its going to be a great fight. They better put some steal reinforcements in that cage because it will be tested.
303
Veegoh - Carwin/Gonzaga is one of the fights that really makes MMA so exciting. I love that the entire pace of a fight can be turned around in a split second. The crowd was going nuts for Gonzaga hurting Shane, then all of the sudden fights over. You have to love a sport where it only takes a second to change the outcome.
Agreed
My money will be on Shane. Lesnar is amazing but will get hit on the button and will be out cold.