http://www.stickgrappler.net/2013/09/in-memory-of-ken-norton-sr-august-9.html
so sad, he was 70.
RIP Champ
Ali X Norton I
70 years old is good innings.
So long, Sir. You were a warrior and a gentleman.
RIP.
I can't believe his passing hasn't received more publicity. Norton was one of the last truly great great HWs and I'm one of the people who believed he beat Ali 3/3 times.
Would love to have seen a prime Norton destroy LL and the Klitschkos ....
RIP :*(
judomf -
RIP.
I can't believe his passing hasn't received more publicity. Norton was one of the last truly great great HWs and I'm one of the people who believed he beat Ali 3/3 times.
Would love to have seen a prime Norton destroy LL and the Klitschkos ....
It's sad that he suffered in his fin years and also that he is now gone. He was a stand up human being. I hate sounding like I'm putting him down, but he is being vastly overrated. He came along when the division was the marquee division. It also helped that he had three highly competitive bouts with the sports big name fighter, who was also passed his prime when they fought. Ken Norton is the only heavyweight world champion to have never won a world title fight. He was awarded the belt, he did not win it. He lost the belt in his first defense. He had a solid career, but is regarded more for whom he fought with and not who he actually beat. Yes he beat Ali once, but that was it. His next biggest win was either a KO of Quarry or a split decision over Jimmy Young. He got blasted by Ernie Shavers and George Foreman. He also never fought Joe Frazier or most of the other heavyweights like Ron Lyle, George Chuvalo, Gregario Perralta, Jimmy Ellis, Mac Foster, Buster Mathis, Joe Bugner, Oscar Bonavena and Chuck Wepner. I just can't understand calling a fighter a All time Great when they never won a single title fight nor faced the vast majority of the top guys during their career. Call me bitter/ hater whatever. I'm saddened at his passing, but can't praise him as something he wasnt.
RIP
boxing wiz -judomf -
RIP.
I can't believe his passing hasn't received more publicity. Norton was one of the last truly great great HWs and I'm one of the people who believed he beat Ali 3/3 times.
Would love to have seen a prime Norton destroy LL and the Klitschkos ....
It's sad that he suffered in his fin years and also that he is now gone. He was a stand up human being. I hate sounding like I'm putting him down, but he is being vastly overrated. He came along when the division was the marquee division. It also helped that he had three highly competitive bouts with the sports big name fighter, who was also passed his prime when they fought. Ken Norton is the only heavyweight world champion to have never won a world title fight. He was awarded the belt, he did not win it. He lost the belt in his first defense. He had a solid career, but is regarded more for whom he fought with and not who he actually beat. Yes he beat Ali once, but that was it. His next biggest win was either a KO of Quarry or a split decision over Jimmy Young. He got blasted by Ernie Shavers and George Foreman. He also never fought Joe Frazier or most of the other heavyweights like Ron Lyle, George Chuvalo, Gregario Perralta, Jimmy Ellis, Mac Foster, Buster Mathis, Joe Bugner, Oscar Bonavena and Chuck Wepner. I just can't understand calling a fighter a All time Great when they never won a single title fight nor faced the vast majority of the top guys during their career. Call me bitter/ hater whatever. I'm saddened at his passing, but can't praise him as something he wasnt.
Yeah, fair point, but i think his 'achievements' against Ali deserve more better scrutiny & praise.
Although Joe Bugner? Negro please.
Yes, he didn't actually win the title, but he did lose to a prime Larry Holmes on a SD and only by a point on each winning card, athough i think it was wider than that. Having said that, I'd still think he'd blitz most of HWs in the last 20 yrs, with the exception of prime Holyfield and maybe Tyson.
I think your giving Ken too much credit. He gave slick boxers like Ali trouble, but he also froze up against big punchers. I think he honestly would have had trouble with a lot of guys. I think he would have lost to guys like Mike Weaver, Tim Witherspoon, Ray Mercer and maybe even Frank Bruno. Lennox and the Klitchkos destroy him. The perfect match up would have been Ken against Tommy Morrison. Two Big and strong guys whom neither catch well. Norton had better defense but might freeze against Tommy's power.
C'mon ... slick boxers like Ali? Ali was a warrior who could rumble too; he went flat out against Norton & Frazier 3 times each!, and Foreman, remember? that's seven wars alone.
Fighting is all about styles too, so he got smashed by Frazier and Foreman, so what. IMO, he would have cleaned up Bruno, MW and TW (who were all second tier HWs for the history books) but agree he would have trouble with prime Mercer and maybe prime TM. I urge you to re-watch his Holmes fight, that his last 'great' showing against a prime Holmes, and that was years after his beatings from MA, GF and JF. Obviously, Holmes wasn't a 'big' puncher, but i would not like to have taken the shots Norton took flush; think about it.
VK and LL never had anything close to those kind of fights, especially VK, plus LL got ko'ed by a stiff called McCall. I can't believe you even rate an average plodder like Klitschko.
WTF has VK beaten? Where were his wars?
At least 10 HWs from the 70s would have KHTFO. Could you imagine Shavers/Lyle v Klitschko?
You're killing me ...
Shavers and Lyle would both beat Klitchko(either one)? These guys both lost to Jerry Quarry. Shaver was KO'd in one, and also stopped by Tex Cobb. Shavers was always in a fight because of his huge power, but he had a ton of holes in his game. Same goes for Lyle. If smaller guys like Gregorio Perralta and Jimmy Young could outbox him, Klitchko's and Lennox would be up to the task also. Klitchko's haven't had many wars because their height, long jabs and power give them huge advantages. I don't even care for them, but can acknowledge their skills. And Lennox may have suffered two KO's, but both were avenged in pretty dominate fashion.
I agree that Weaver and Witherspoon were second tier heavyweights. That is the reason I threw Norton in that group. He was not elite. So his claim was losing close decisions to Ali and Holmes. The one victory over Ali came with Ali coming off his first loss, taking a huge beating, and only having two fights in four years. He didn't beat the prime Ali. And Holmes had razor thin wins over guys like Renaldo Snipes and Witherspoon. Does that make them great?
Have to agree with boxingwiz, but Norton deserves a lot o respect. He was a gladiator.
Holmes is the most over rated boxer in history. Bring up Holmes on any boxing thread and you will have 20 guys talking about how underrated he is, like it's the first time anyone has ever expressed that opinion
I'm not trying to piss on the poor guy. Everything I ever heard about him, he was a great guy. It just bothers me that people try and build people up as something they weren't when they die. His boxing career is secondary to his accomplishments he achieved in real life. I wasn't attacking the guys character which is far more important than where he stands in boxing a echelon. People take this serious I guess. I got voted down twice over this. I guess that'll show me to never disagree again. LOL