Rothwell-Overeem oblique kick dishonorable & dirty

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                                Rothwell-Overeem oblique kick dishonorable & dirty

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                    <p>Ben Rothwell beat Alistair Overeem at UFN 50 on Saturday, but in an interview with Australia&#39;s awesome <a href="https://twitter.com/SubmissionAus" target="_blank">Submission Radio</a>, the heavyweight was a sore winner, pointedly complaining about Overeem&#39;s oblique kicks to the knee.</p>

Overeem is now a member of Jackson/Winkeljohn MMA. Coach Mike Winkeljohn held world titles in Muay Thai and kickboxing, but is also a 5th degree black belt in Kenpo karate, a self-defense oriented system that he learned under Bill Packer. Kenpo employs many kicks to the knee, and Jackson/Winkeljohn fighters including UFC light heavyweight champion Jon Jones have used them in fights.

Below Jones demonstrates the attack.

In response, several fighters including Rampage Jackson and Rashad Evans have called for the kick to be banned, calling it a "dirty" technique. Rothwell agrees.

"I almost yelled at him in the fight," said Rothwell as transcribed by MMAMania. "He was doing some real dirty push kicks to my knee, and it's just a dirty move. It's not honorable in my mind because this isn't street fighting. Like street fighting, if you're fighting in the street, I'm undefeated. And I will remain so, and if I'm not, it means I'm dead. If you want to fight like that, then I'm going to start. I'm gonna rip his eyes out, I'm gonna pull his jugular out with my teeth, and I'm gonna break things on him. I'm gonna start snapping fingers and it'll be a lot worse on him. And throwing push kicks at the knee joint is kinda like, to me it's the same dirty message. It's like you don't do that, and I almost said something to him during the fight like 'really?' like 'you're gonna play like that?' and I luckily ended him before he got to do it anymore."

The issue with oblique kicks is not so much that they are dirty, as that they are new. Submissions in professional MMA are not applied to get a tap as they are by rule in grappling and BJJ, they are applied to break the joint. There is nothing inherently different between try to injure a joint with a joint lock, and trying to injure it with a kick.

MMA is a hurting game, and what Overeem did was very much within the rules, and acceptable. It remains another question as to whether they were effective. One of Overeem's conventional kicks landed so hard it caused severe swelling and nerve damage, and led Rothwell to believe the arm had broken. Or perhaps Rothwell blocked the kick wrong as he was worried about the awkward oblique kicks.

The great thing about mixed martial arts is that time will tell. More fighters will start to use the oblique kick, its effectiveness will be determined, and in time, it will be regarded as not less dirty than hitting a man when he is down.

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Translation = big ben doesn't like getting kicked in the legs. The push kicks are fine.

that's like saying knee bars are dirty Phone Post 3.0

Hittimg people in the face is dirty. You can kill a man that way.
I think we need to just get rid of anything that can possibly hurt anyone. We aren't savages! Phone Post 3.0

Warrior Bahn - "Brain trama no big deal but knee trauma is out of the question"

This.

Which is worse for your career, or hell, your life? I'll take the knee injury thank you very much.

Jones is going to use them all night on DC : ( Phone Post 3.0

i don't think they should be banned but they are for sure a dirty move, like stomping on toes.

knee smash - i don't think they should be banned but they are for sure a dirty move, like stomping on toes.

What exactly makes those moves dirty when compared to something like kneeing someone in the face?

I don't like them and do think they are cheap having had knee injuries and they really suck you could really fuck a knee up so I am biased.

Didn't Rampage say they really fucked his knees up and blamed them for needing surgeries prior to his Bellator debut. Phone Post 3.0

Ive asked before but cant remember the rules and attitudes torward it:

Are they legal/illegal in KB, MT, full contact karate, etc and if legal, what are the attitudes toward them?

Also, ironic that one of Reem's "regular" kicks did in fact end up breaking Rothwell's arm. And....in before the same people who want to see a "fight" instead of "point fighting" will also view these as dirty....esp when Jones does them.

Bit of a bias article there. Idk if bias is the right word. Slanted maybe? Idk if I think the kick is dirty, I don't like to see it but it's not necessarily dirty. I'll put it between foot stomps and striking after the glove touch. Phone Post 3.0

lol @ all the people here who dont think its dirty. ID love to see you neckbeard keyboard warriors step in the cage and be knee kicked to hyperextension. These guys are real fighters saying its a bs move i agree with them

BigTedBear - I don't like them and do think they are cheap having had knee injuries and they really suck you could really fuck a knee up so I am biased.

Didn't Rampage say they really fucked his knees up and blamed them for needing surgeries prior to his Bellator debut. Phone Post 3.0
No he said he already had knee injuries, and thought someone had leaked the info to Jon's camp because he was attacking his injured knee. He never said they caused it, it was injured in camp previously to fighting. Phone Post 3.0

Warrior Bahn - Disagree. Great technique to keep distance and may cause damage. Its a fight
. Phone Post 3.0

mr1709 - lol @ all the people here who dont think its dirty. ID love to see you neckbeard keyboard warriors step in the cage and be knee kicked to hyperextension. These guys are real fighters saying its a bs move i agree with them
It's within the rules, but I have had 2 knee surgeries, so it makes me cringe every time I see them land. Phone Post 3.0

mr1709 - lol @ all the people here who dont think its dirty. ID love to see you neckbeard keyboard warriors step in the cage and be knee kicked to hyperextension. These guys are real fighters saying its a bs move i agree with them


I can't stand them.  as a result, all the guys who watch this crap and then come to the gym to spar and I have to worry about getting kicked in my knee now.  I swear to god, everytime jon jones fight, some asshole comes to class and does that kick saying it's not dirty.  I'm sorry, but if you are a normal average joe who likes to train for fun, getting kicked like that is dirty as hell.



 

"There is nothing inherently different between try to injure a joint with a joint lock, and trying to injure it with a kick."

 

 

I think there is a  big difference between knee kicks and submissions such as joint locks. With knee kicks you don't have an option to tap like you do with other submissions. I agree that it's a dirty move.

People are correct to say that these stupid moves are no more dirty than the kicks to the face etc.

But they just seem less manly and honourable, toe stomps and those calf kicks Bendo tried vs pettis and that kind of shit are cringey to watch sometimes. Phone Post 3.0

Doing something in training vs. the Octagon is different. You don't hip bump armbars into hyperextension or jerk heel hooks in training. Hell, you don't try to knock partners out intentionally in training either. All of those things are out of line in training but perfectly fine in the UFC. Hell, it's the goal. It's a sport about trying to hurt your opponent. It's their job to prevent it and to hurt you instead. It's a fight. Dirty would be something like eye gouging, biting, or pulling some prime NWA Ric Flair shit. Phone Post 3.0

mr1709 - lol @ all the people here who dont think its dirty. ID love to see you neckbeard keyboard warriors step in the cage and be knee kicked to hyperextension. These guys are real fighters saying its a bs move i agree with them


(checks UFC rulebook) Leg kicks, knee kicks = legal



Whining about it like a little bitch = irrelevant.



Breaking elbows, hitting a downed opponent ('the Bisping punch') are all within the rules. It's not a TKD tournament.