http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=9360 In a recent interview in the Pensacola News Journal , former four-division champ Roy Jones, Jr. gave his take on the pound-for-pound king, Floyd Mayweather Jr., competing in the Ultimate Fighting Championship. "He can go ahead and try it. He might (be able to beat them), who knows? If he can get to them first, he probably knock them out. But he'd have to keep them from getting him to the floor in a submission move, because if they do it's all over for him," Jones said. When asked if he would ever consider a possible move to mixed martial arts, Jones was quick to to no. Unlike other boxers, Jones plans to stick to the craft he knows best. "No, because that's not something I trained at for all these years to be out there for a quick fix. I don't go out there to knock you out in the first round. I go out to dissect you, use my art and skill to break you down and defeat you," Jones said. Jones told NY Newsday several days ago, he is a big fan of mixed martial arts. But, he recently said there is a huge gap between the skill level of most boxers and most mixed martial artists. "It's good because it gives those types of guys a way to earn money. I don't think mixed martial arts is going to take over boxing because boxing's a skill. Not many guys can come up and get to be 27 and say, "OK, I want to go fight in the boxing ring." But (in MMA) you can do that. All you gotta do is go learn to grapple, learn to wrestle or some submission moves and be tough, you can do that," Jones said. "All those guys on "Pros vs. Joes," maybe they have a chance to do that. But they don't have a chance in that boxing ring for 12 rounds. Endurance, stamina, discipline. Those three things make what it takes to be a professional athlete. Those guys in the UFC, some of them are good athletes, too, don't get me wrong. But most of them are just tough guys who like to fight."
hmmmm.
the guy is an idiot. Most MMA fighters have done wrestling, BJJ, Judo or kickboxing for just as long as the average pro boxer has boxed. And nobody can just start MMA at age 27 without any previous training and compete at a decent level anymore.
He has valid points.
He speaks the truth. The talent pool in MMA is so shallow that paying for BJJ & muay thai classes for 5 years is often enough to get you into the big-time. That's just a function of the sport still being relatively new--it will change in the coming years Im sure
I would bet that an athletic 27 year old could train boxing for 5 years and do very well. Would they be champ of a major org? Probably not, but they would do as well as any other journeyman boxer.
And really, what major MMA champ has not done something (wrestling, BJJ, etc) for many, many years?
Sounds reasonable.
I'll take MMA every time however.
I used to think the same thing about wrestling in jr high, until the "art" of wrestling has handed to me (with my ass) on a silver platter. I was a football player and I will be completely honest in saying that a wrestler endures some of the most gruelling conditioning out there on a daily basis. Doubles in football is hell but wrestlers endure the same training day in day out.
Nikolai Valuev didn't start boxing until he was 20, had his first pro fight within a year. So not every boxer starts as a young kid.
While Jones may be underestimating the number of excellent athletes in MMA, he is an insightful guy (his fight analysis during boxing matches could be amazing, literally predicting moves of the fighters moments before they happen).
And even as a huge MMA fan I have to acknowledge his point: "Not many guys can come up and get to be 27 and say, "OK, I want to go fight in the boxing ring." But (in MMA) you can do that."
That's been pretty well true. There HAVE been quite a number of stories of guys getting into MMA after not a lot of training - especially compared to the years of training most pro boxers have gone through to make it as a pro - and yet many have done well in MMA, even against top competition. Being tough and strong and learning enough about the game to avoid your weaknesses
has allowed a number of dudes to put a hurting on other professional MMAers.
Even Kimbo may be an example. While he's only taken out an ex-champ boxer at the moment, what if in a couple years he's a force in MMA? You have to admit, given the history of MMA, it could be the case. (Even
a relatively unskilled Bob Sapp almost killed the top
Heavyweight MMAer at the time - Nog).
But you generally don't see that happening in boxing.
Guys becoming formidable to top competition in as little time. It seems to take many more years, in general, in boxing. Even when MMA guys try their hand in professional boxing they don't get very far in the professional ranks. Boxing's talent pool is so deep. (Or...was...)
None of that is to deny the insane skill and atheleticism of many MMAers. But I think Roy does have a point, despite that he may not have got everything right about MMA.
Prof.
"Nikolai Valuev didn't start boxing until he was 20, had his first pro fight within a year."
Valuev is by far not your average person either. Jones does have some valid points but I think they are true mostly because MMA is still a young sport with a more shallow pool of talent than boxing. Where he is wrong, I believe, is that MMA will not take over boxing; I think he is gravely mistaken there. And I am a HUGE fan of boxing!
Valuev is a physical freak though, and he still had literally 4 or 5 times the experience someone like Hong Man Choi had when he started fighting (and winning BIG in K-1).
Jones has a point in that while MMA fighters might be great in their base art, as strictly "MMA fighters" they aren't as good at the art of MMA as top boxers are at the art of boxing.
Hong Man Choi has won big? Who has he beaten again? Freakshow fights are hardly a consideration. And as for Sapp nearly 'killing' Nog, one slam does not make you a good fighter. How many boxers would even fight someone twice their own weight?
Different games, totally different overall. The only comparison you can make between boxing and MMA is the fact that the guys hit each other. Other than that it apples and oranges.
Jones is right in that there is a lot more competition in the boxing game because it has been around for a while and it has matured as a sport over the years. MMA is still in its infancy. As it evolves the skill and work it takes to get to the top of the heap will be comparable to boxing, but as it stands now the talent pool is not that deep so you get cans fighting top contenders all the time.
"Hong Man Choi has won big?"
He beat the reigning K-1 Grand Prix champion in Semmy Schilt. That win alone is big. Sapp also beat the legendary Hoost three times.
I remember a saying (not sure where it comes from) but it goes something like 'If you do something for a solid year, and that's ALL you do at the end of that year you will be the best at it'. Not sure if it goes exactly like that but I kind of agree with the sentiment.
I don't think you need 15 years to be the best at anything, I think you need 100% dedication to doing it and a high level of competition. Randy might've been a wrestler but he started FIGHTING at 36. I think he would do ok in real Boxing, maybe not the higher levels but he'd do alright.
These guys place too much emphasis on how long they've been doing it. The reason why MMA guys aren't as good at boxing as real boxers is because they dedicate themselves to knowing every style - it's kind of a moot point to say 'you aren't as good as us in Boxing' if that's ALL that you do. Jones ignores that these guys are better at EVERYTHING ELSE not just submissions.
Wrestling
Judo
BJJ
Kickboxing
Boxing
These are SKILLS. Stop trying to pump yourself up because you are better at 1 of the 5.
Big William-"...I would bet that an athletic 27 year old could train boxing for 5 years and do very well. Would they be champ of a major org? Probably not, but they would do as well as any other journeyman boxer. "-------------------------------------------------------------Actualkly no. Unless the guy is a rare and absolute freak, he will be at the very bottom of the list of low journey men boxers.
There's a very good reason Tre Telligman beat Igor Vov and almost beat Rizzo twice, yet got KOed just about every time he tried to box a low level journeyman.
MMA KILLER strikers like Mighty Mo and Mark Hunt also did poorly against LOW level journeymen in boxing. Boxing is a VERY hard skill to just pick up and fighters w/ a good amateure career would be WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY ahead of any 27 year old trying to get into boxing.
Rich Franklin was 27 when he started and look how well he did in MMA......he would have gotten DESTROYED if he tried to do the same in boxing.
I'm not saying boxing BEATS MMA, but it is harder overall to pick up because it's such a specific skillset, while Rich Franklin made it to the top of the UFC MW division, holding and defending a title, by being a jack of all trades fighter, but NEVER was he a master of any. In boxing he would have just gotten worked over badly and his chin would have betryed him worse than his hands would have.
Guys like Chris leben, Forrest, and Stephen Bonnar woulld NOT be STARS like they are in MMA. They would be considered bums. Cans.
My favorite fighter is Igor Vovchanchin, but he'd get killed by journeymen fighters in boxing too.
I actually agree with him.
You've got guys like Mike Nichols (no disrespect to him) fighting in the UFC. He's a tough guy who learned to grapple, throw some punches, and that's it.
That being said, the upper echelon of MMA (Fedor, Mino, Cro Cop, BJ Penn, Hughes) have been training in something for all their lives, just the way top boxers do.
Comparing Boxing to a game of checkers is WAY off base. The best in each sport (boxing and MMA) are always thinking at least three steps ahead in the game, and paying close attention for open opportunities.
Sure, the only striking in boxing is using your hands, but there's a hell of a lot more to it than just throwing punches. Just like there's a hell of a lot more to MMA than submissions.
Jones Jr. has many good points; but keep in mind he doesn't know everything about MMA (and would probably admit it). Who really does unless you're actually doing it? I wouldn't expect strictly MMA fighters to know everything there is to know in Boxing. Like someone said above; it's comparing apples and oranges. People are always going to like one more than the other, and fight eachother over who is right.
Something I don't understand, and am happy to hear any theories on, is: If there's such a big deal over Boxing vs MMA, why isn't there the same drama over any single martial art vs MMA or even BJJ vs Greco Roman Wrestling?
Is this feud about money, or just an ego thing? (Seriously, any theories are appreciated. I'm really trying to understand.)