MickColins and Hunter what was Carlson rank in 1971? Do you know? What year was Carlson last Vale Tudo fight? 1970 when he was 38, have you ever seen the pics? Carley became family champion in 1968 and he was bigger and stromger than Carlson plus he was trained by Carlson so he knew his game well. Carley was tapping Carlson with footlocks and this was told to me by one of there brothers who had nothing to gain by fabricating anything. No one is talking shit about Carlson since im a hugh Carlson fan but since you where there and the brother was not Ill take your word. Im just stating the facts. Oh and for the record did you know that Black belt ranks where not awarded prior to 1968 and Carlson was 8th dan in 1971.
I'm beginning to see that ALL the Gracies are frauds.
I'm going back to the world of Hwa Rango Do where at least you can trust the lineage and ranks.
is that the martial arts place next to the big tomy's burger on sawtelle. you get a free chili burger with every promotion, stripes included
^ Yes it is!
People in the BJJ world make a big deal about guy who gets a Black Belt in 4-years, well at the World Hwa Rang Do Headquarters, they turn out 2-year Black Belts on the Regular.
It's a 2,000 year old martial art founded by a guy in his 60's. Hard to explain how that is over the internet, but TRUST me: it's all legit.
The Hwa Rang Do Master of Big Tomy's Burger palace,requies that you comsume their new 2 1/2 pounder before talks begin.
graciesrule - MickColins and Hunter what was Carlson rank in 1971? Do you know? What year was Carlson last Vale Tudo fight? 1970 when he was 38, have you ever seen the pics? Carley became family champion in 1968 and he was bigger and stromger than Carlson plus he was trained by Carlson so he knew his game well. Carley was tapping Carlson with footlocks and this was told to me by one of there brothers who had nothing to gain by fabricating anything. No one is talking shit about Carlson since im a hugh Carlson fan but since you where there and the brother was not Ill take your word. Im just stating the facts. Oh and for the record did you know that Black belt ranks where not awarded prior to 1968 and Carlson was 8th dan in 1971.
When people list the Gracie "Family Champions", they list Carlos,Helio,Carlson,Rolls and Rickson. They don't mention Carley. Only Carley mentions Carley. Most of these superman claims come from Carley. When Carlson was alive, BJJ and MMA fighters would fly to him or pay him to come watch them spar and give advice. Dudes fly from all over to go to a Rickson seminar. I've never heard of guys flying to get tips from Carley. Not saying Carley isn't an awesome instructor or BJJ badass, just saying there is little proof of his amazing feats beyond his own words. But, by all means, send me the name of the dude who says Carley was leglocking Carlson, I'll ask around about it.
Carley says he went to the US in 1972. Carlson's last professional fight was 1970. Relson Gracie says that there were no professional challenge matches to the Gracie family until Rickson in 1980. For the 1970s, the challenges were closed doors fights and sport BJJ stuff. GIA shows footage of Rolls fighting challenge matches. I don't remember if it shows Carley but I kinda doubt it since its a Rorion production. Its easier to find stuff about Rolls fight records than Carley. And Rolls is considered the family champion after Carlson and Carlson mentions that in an interview. Rickson calls bullshit on his claims of being the Family Champion and makes reference to some event that happened 12 years ago(at the time of the interview) that apparently showed he wasn't as tough as he claimed. From looking around, the only person who says he was the Gracie family champion was Carley.
As to the stripes thing, I have no clue how they were handed out back in the day. I know that, for a long time, Instructor level was a Blue belt of a different shade. Guys I train with who trained with Sr. have mentioned that he'd sometimes wear a blue belt and when someone would ask about it, he'd explain that Black belts mean crap since a 10 year old doing TKD can be a black belt.
Wasnt the saying something like, "Stripes only protect one end of your belt"?
Anyways, it still rings true. If you have stripes, looks at the other end of your belt. Notice how much more it is frayed?
I remember intheguard.com had a interview with Carlson where he was asked his oppinion of Carley....Im pretty sure his respnse was "Carley was full of shit"....or something pretty close to that....
I read that interview and Carlson was talking about Reylson and called him an a**hole and a retard, not Carley. Carlson had a falling out with Reylson. Carlson was on good terms with Carley. Ive also never heard of Carlos sr called family champion. Family champions by dates: Helio 1930-1955, Carlson 1955-1968, Carley 1968-1972, Rolls1972-1982, Rickson 1982-2007, Roger 2007-present. Although Roger didnt do it in the tradition of closed door, gi worn with open hand strikes matches. By the way Carley went 8-0 verse Rorion.
Your probably right....Thought it was towards carley
graciesrule - Family champions by dates: Helio 1930-1955, Carlson 1955-1968, Carley 1968-1972, Rolls1972-1982, Rickson 1982-2007, Roger 2007-present. Although Roger didnt do it in the tradition of closed door, gi worn with open hand strikes matches. By the way Carley went 8-0 verse Rorion.Show me anyone who lists Carley as a Family Champion besides you and Carley. Because Rickson called him a liar.
Several of Carley's brothers have verified that he was family champion. Rickson was 9 years old when he became champion. Ever here the story of Carley's fight with Helio over the refrigerator? It was posted on here several years ago but I see you ve only been a member for a a little over a year.
graciesrule - Several of Carley's brothers have verified that he was family champion. Rickson was 9 years old when he became champion. Ever here the story of Carley's fight with Helio over the refrigerator? It was posted on here several years ago but I see you ve only been a member for a a little over a year.
Ahh, the old "you've only been a member for X" response. Once again, show me someone other than Carley who states he was the Family Champion. Rickson called out Carley and Carley never seemed to respond. I'm not denying Carley is a tough dude, but the only source for his juggernaut-accomplishments is himself. When magazines like Graciemag list the baddest BJJ fighters, they list the guys I mentioned and not Carley.
How could he be family champion if the family itself disagrees???
Pretty much everyone agrees on Rickson, Rolls, and Carlson and im pretty sure they agree on Roger aswell...
Looking at this family tree here, which brothers claimed Carley as family champion and when was it?? Between Carlson and Rolls?? sorry if I missed it
http://www.riliongracie.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=62&Itemid=57
Rickson called Carley a liar in response to Carley's claim that he had never been tapped by any member of the Gracie family.
Rickson's response of 'ask him what happened on date [xxxx] at [xxxx]' (I can't remember exact specifics ) indicated that Rickson had tapped him out.
But Rickson didn't say that Carley was never the family champion.
"FF
Would you fight another Gracie in a NHB event?
RG
There are a select few Gracie's that I would fight just to shut their mouths. They have said negative things about my father and I would fight to defend his honor.
FF
Can you tell us which Gracie's?
RG
Carley for one, he tells everybody that he was family champion and how that other Gracie's are scared of him. Why doesn't he tell what happened to him 12 years ago? "
When the present family champion states that "He tells everyone that he was family champion" instead of "he was family champion", its safe to assume he is calling bullshit.
Hmm..Draculino was a black belt when they were green kids belts, and they have surpassed him in belt degree...
unusual.
Reylson and Reyson(Carleys brothers)have said he was a family champion , so thats good enough for me.