Safety of MMA

Underground
1

How a bout a little think tank just incase a second interview happens.

Direct comparrisons to other sports may not be the answe (ie we are bad but ....... is worse)

Here is one thing that beffadles me though

in the NRL, AFL etc.... you get KTFO and 15mins later or second half you are back out there. We (well I know I do and pro boxing) have a 28 day clause - not permitting fighters to participate within a 28 day period of suffering a TKO/KO

When relating injuries in other sports though remember that there are probably 10000 + people playing football everyweekend for 80mins. So naturally they will have more deaths and injuries.

Keep 'em comming

Justin

2

Interesting how everyone here is crying foul after last night, yet no-one has anything??

Justin

3

if you look at both minor and serious injuries sustained in sport cheerleading is always no 1 or 2. And netballis also good for blowing out our knees.

We have to be realistic that MMA, boxing or any comat sport is more dangerious then traditional ball sports as the name of the game is to KO your opponent.

4

Use Equestrian as an example. Equestrian with Motor Racing have the highest death rates per participant if I remember my stats correctly. Motor racing is also one of the only sports where fans have died due to competitors (cars crashing). Equestrian also has some of the highest spinal injury rates.

Where's the outrage for these sports?

Highschool Football in the US (American Football or Gridiron as we new it) has one of the highest death rates (though not totally appicable to our situation).

Good point regarding KO's.

Elvis

5

atta boy elvis I knew you'd have something.

Also MMA really is nothing more (when under fire) than a combination of olympic sports being TKD juso and boxing. Will that ever be banned??

Football players on the field after KO's really disturbs me a LOT

Justin

6

I think Justin's on the right track. The best argument i think i've heard in relation to this isnt just along the lines of safety comparisons, but the Olympic comparison (made by Matt Lindland a little while ago). You take swimming, running and cycling, all Olympic sports, and when you combine them into Triathlon its another well respected (and eventually became an) Olympic sport. Now you have MMA, which is essentially in some form a combination of Boxing, Judo and Wrestling (stand up exchanges, and traditional grappling forms) and suddenly there becomes "call to ban a brutal form" of a sport that is "essentially bare knuckle boxing".

Chris.

7

here is a excerpt from an XFC contract -

Age

"warrants and undertakes that he is over the age of 18, and that he is free to enter into this agreement and is not subject to any obligation or disability which will or might prevent him from keeping and performing all of his rights and obligations pursuant to this agreement."

28 days

"The fighter shall not compete in any mixed Martial Arts, boxing or other ring sports in the preceding 28 days from the date of the event. The fighter shall advise XFC of any other contact sporting events that they propose to enter and/or undertake within that 28 day period including but not limited to Australian Rules Football, Rugby Union, Rugby League, Soccer, Basketball, Water Polo. The fighter will take all reasonable steps to ensure that their health is not jeopardised within that preceding 28 day period.

c) If the fighter suffers any injury whatsoever in the period between signing this agreement and the date of the event, he shall notify XFC immediately."

8

I think we need to put more effort into the amature devlopment of the sport. Internationaly the fighters tend to of had a better build up to fighting, be it in compeditive wrestling or grappling. In Japan it is a system of progretion from amature to B class to A class. I think we rush some fighters into supposed A class fights.
We need to illustrate to the authorities that this is a sport not a spectacle. We also need a standard set of rules and weight classes, this should be governed by a commision who ensures that matches are paired correctly, that weighins are conducted properly and the matches well refereed.
It is the promotors who hold the most responsibily for how the sport is portrayed.

9

Alex,

Before John DONEHUE was promoting I spoke to him regarding these issues and saw validity in creating a MMA board. Realistically though promoters should not be part of the board, at best they should have a voice to the board.

As for a rules NSAC rules are definately the way to go and they are fast becomming more and more prevalent in the US. These rules are most suited IMO which is backed by extensive legal rearch and opinion.

The progression part is challenging and I know that your shooto lineage utilises such, however, I really do believe that readiness is only relevant to the task ahead. With honest promoting without biase ethical matches can be made

eg. I have a first timer at 77kg who is IMO ready to fight under NSAC rules (UFC/XFC rules), however, he is FAR from ready to do such V yourself. With even matching though these rules can be safe.

Thanks for the input too!!

Justin

10

I think Justin is right in saying the matching of fighters has a fair bit to do with it.

Sorry to bring up boxing again but probably the last big big boxing show in Australia was Kostyas last fight in Melb, 7 fights for what ended up being a total of only 23 rounds, the 2 main fights were 12 round fights each.
TKO7, KO3, TKO1, TKO1 TKO1, TKO4 and TKO6.
I was going to this fight until i saw the match ups, it was very very easy to pick the winners of EVERY fight and this sort of matching only gives the likes of the AMA shit to throw back at combat sports.
There are now so many boxing cards that mainly finish in KO's and TKO's
But then again most of the general public probably like seing fights that finish like this so it makes it hard on the promoters and match makers.

11

I defnitely agree that we should not use the "MMA is bad, but not as bad as ..." argument. No good comes of that. I like to use the 'focus' argument too - in ball sports, injuries happen all the time, some actually quite serious, eg. knees and ankles blown out, bones broken, concussions etc.

These things generally happen as 'incidental' to the main focus of either the injured player or an opponent - by that I mean, a footballer will be trying to hold onto the ball, or get out of the tackle from one player, or stay standing, or even all three, when he will twist his knee, or get blindsided by an elbow from a player he didn't see coming, or his ankle will get crushed under the weight of his tacklers. My point is: the players focus is NOT on self-preservation - he is focussed on a multitude of other things.

Combat sports put the combatants into a situation where they have 2 things to focus on - protecting themselves, and attacking their opponent. That's it. Nothing else to get in the way. It's always the punch you don't see that knocks you out, and it's more often the 'punches' you don't see in ball sports that cause the injuries. When your focus is on defense, it's easier to not get surprised.

The prevalence of these serious injuries in these 'non-combat' sports precludes them from being called "accidents', or "incidental". The evidence suggests that MMA does NOT have these injury problems - all available evidence points to any damage sustained is confined to superficial only - ie. cuts, bruising, swelling.

MMA also has many avenues available to end a fight, such as tapping, verbally submitting, ref or corner intervention. Their is no stigma attached to 'quitting' - it is honourable to tap out when being beaten.

I also think we should only refute the 'repeated battering of the brain' argument in response to specific (stupid) allegations such as the Muhammad Ali analogy made by the AMA in the Ten news piece, by stating the number of shots to the head is always a low number, as serious shots result in an early end to the fight. Otherwise we should never bring it up.

My 2 cents... ;-)

12

We are a small segment of society when it comes to our chosen sport.
We can come up with all the facts and arguments we want but at the
end of the day, a large component of our sport is inflicting bodily harm
to the opponent. It is not out of malice, it is just a simple part of our
sport.

I came to realise the futility of explaining my participation in
fight sports a long time ago. I remeber a member at a gym I worked at
asked me why I was limping, I told him about my Kyokushin fight on
the weekend and he asked me if I got really well paid for it, I said no,
he asked why I did it and when I said for the challenge/love etc of the
sport he asked why I did not just run competitvely for a chalenge.

We have to realise that most people just don't get it and no matter how
hard we try we will never be able to explain why as grown men, we put
on gloves etc, jump in a ring and try to ko or submit the other person.
I think a lot of us become involved in this sport cause its different, it
appeals to a simple urge inside us and it makes us belong to a sub
culture, I love the fact that I follow a sport that involves this type of
forum discussion in a tightly knit community with accessible stars and
not something like AFL.
We can try and relate all the injury facts in the world to squash these
calls for our sport to be banned, but as Cadmus said, the injuries that
concern our critics (right or wrong) are a direct result of the ultimate
aim of our sport ie knock outs, busted bones, thighs chopped from
kicks etc, not as accidents or rare malicious acts like torn hamstrings
or head high tackles. The argument of yes but,,, is never going to win
us the battle, would it make us happy if all sports got banned? no. I
think our strongest argument is the willingness of participants, high
level of training and skill, responsible officiating and medicals. Its
almost the shooting gallery argument, people are going to do, lets
regulate it and make it as safe as possible.

And if you think you don't enjoy the brutality of the sport, please
honeslty think back to the exitement you feel when you see Cro Cop
land a head kick, Coleman headbutt someone into the ground or
Vanderlai soccer kicking people. Oh and does anyone hear like Fedor's
G&P?