Ok I know both Sambo & BJJ came from Judo but which of these new styles came first?
Well I always herd that BJJ came from Judo but Judo came Jiu-Jitsu.
Sambo was developed in the 20's but was standardized right before WW2 and came into mass use in the USSR after the war. BJJ developed after Maeda came to Brazil in 1910's. Took a few decades to develop, I'm sure.
"I thought the guy who went to Brazil and showed Helio everything was a jiu jitsu guy?"
Judo guy.
judo is only a little older than bjj
"I thought the guy who went to Brazil and showed Helio everything was a jiu jitsu guy?"
"Judo guy."
not so clear either way. Kano had just invented judo, so Maeda (one of Kano's top guys)had a significant jjj background, as did ALL of Kano's early guys.
if you've spent significant time in each art, it becomes obvious that judo was hugely influential to BJJ. Kano's major innovation was "live" rolling and wrestling as your primary form of training. with jjj, there was comparatively VERY little live work - that part of the class where you drill the technique WAS your class. with all the obvious limitations there. BJJ without judo's influnce is just a bunch of guys doing techniques, with a dramaticly reduced ability actually execute them. also, EVERY technical innovation that BJJers learned from live rolling (just about everything) would have been impossible without judo's influence.
Sambo, honestly.
And like Gannon said: Maeda taught judo, not kara based JJ.
"not so clear either way. Kano had just invented judo, so Maeda (one of Kano's top guys)had a significant jjj background, as did ALL of Kano's early guys."
ANYONE who has studied JJJ knows that the only part of BJJ that has even a remote connection to JJJ and not Judo is the self-defense stuff. Judo has self-defense stuff too but the BJJ self-defense stuff (specifically the Helio Gracie stuff) is somewhat different.
All the other stuff that you see in sport BJJ competitions or sumbmission wrestling competitions DID NOT come from JJJ with the exception to some techniques that were common to both JJJ and Judo like Hip Throws and such.
And before anyone brings up Fusen Ryu... the grappling stuff they used to defeat the Kodokan was only developed after the Japanese Martial Arts world had assimulated Judo's training concepts and therefore was not a classical JJJ style.
"if you've spent significant time in each art, it becomes obvious that judo was hugely influential to BJJ. Kano's major innovation was "live" rolling and wrestling as your primary form of training. with jjj, there was comparatively VERY little live work - that part of the class where you drill the technique WAS your class. with all the obvious limitations there. BJJ without judo's influnce is just a bunch of guys doing techniques, with a dramaticly reduced ability actually execute them. also, EVERY technical innovation that BJJers learned from live rolling (just about everything) would have been impossible without judo's influence.
"
Actually pretty much every JJJ style before Kano's Judo looked more like Daito Ryu Aiki Jujitsu than current day Judo, Kosen Judo, or BJJ. The focus was on arresting locks, throwing an opponent face down, pinning him face down (like cops do today), dealing with weapons and such. Remember, this was the martial art system created from the teachings of the Japanese Military. Therefore there were very little from JJJ that we use in sport BJJ/submission wrestling.
Sambo was a synthetic martial art that came later. It took influences from a lot of other martial arts than Judo including local wrestling styles. I believe BJJ was designed as a system first though. I think the beginning of BJJ was when Helio started modifying Koma's grappling techniques.