Are Judo and Sambo takedowns/throws basically the same, with only a few differences do to the fact that Samboists dont wear a gi on the lower half of their bodies and Judokas do (thus giving to, and restricting from, the practioners of each art different options on the feet)?
And are good sambo men equally as good as their Judo counterparts at throwing and takedowns? Because just having similar throws does not necessarily mean that the practitioners of both arts are just as likely to perform those techniques with equal efficiency. Case in point is the quality of takedowns in BJJ vs. Wrestling. You have several similar takedowns such as a Double leg taught in both, but no one could ever compare the performance of the double leg by someone with a BJJ background (but no wrestling) with someone who has wrestled for an equal amount of years (obviously do to differences in scoring and ultimate objectives in both sports to which instruction and practice are tailored). So what is the case with Sambo and Judo?
I understand that most, if not all, great Sambo men are also very accomplished Judoka, but if there are any that only did Sambo, how would you rank their throwing/takedown abilities when compared against Judo men of equal rank in their own sport?
The thing that has led to question there even being a difference in the quality of the execution of the throws/takedowns between the practitioners of the two arts is the fact that I read a post on here a few months back that really tore up Shuai-chiao's practioners for having no sense of balance and being ignorant of even the most basic elements of throwing technique. I hope that Sambo and its practioners can be must more favorably compared to Judo than Shuai-chiao was.
Thanks for all the input SuperMarioSak but I still have a question(perhaps due to the fact that I may not have read your post closely enough). That question is, when you say that Judo and Sambo could be said to be "3 points away" from one another, are you making reference to the similarity between the actual techniques taught on the feet, or the ability and efficiacy with which the practitioners of each art execute them?
When I train in Russia I find several differences between judo and sambo. First is the grip, Sambo does'nt have the gripping restrictions that judo has. You can crossgrip or hold onto the belt for the entire match in sambo. Sambo players tend to do more pickup type throws than most judo players. On my first trip to Russia I was disconcerted with the unorthodox gripping. They tended to get a grip and go.
Anyway the above website has alot of Sambo lessons(Fee) and you can download one free one if your interested.
How would you guys rate the typical Sambo player's ability to use his legs to score throws/takedowns against the ability of a Judo player at a similar skill level?
Thanks again SuperMarioSak. You've basically answered my question for me....when you said,
"I find that the advantages of training one or the other for throws are just too negligible"
"Judo and Sambo are much more similar throwing-wise than even Folkstyle and Freestyle wrestling are"
That was exactly the answer that I was looking. I will try to contact phila-judo.com soon and keep you posted about what they had to say. Thanks alot. If anyone else has anything else they'd like to say I would appreciate it.
Oh yeah, what I meant by using the legs was the Trips, Sweeps, and Reaps found in Judo vs. those found in Sambo.
in sambo we try to stand after the throw because if you throw and your opponent lands on his back and you are still standing you get clear victory or ippon.
or if we fall we tend to fix the situation to start wrestle on the ground.
in Judo Moscow's open 3 of the first places was Sambo-70 students that trained mostly sambo...
Mikhail Kazitskiy is a very good sambist and judo player as well.
and so on...
so Sambo and Judo are realy close.
Remaining standing after a throw is also more practical in a self defense situation...a good way to train.
Thanks for your e-mail Yakov.
Yakov, could you comment on the question that I asked above, that being, How would you rate the effective use of the legs to score throws/takedowns by Sambo men as opposed to Judo men (insofar as sweeps, trips, blocks, and reaps are concerned)? Would you say that their proficiency in executing those maneuvers when compared to their Judo counterparts is as close as is their proficiency in the other throws?
Good points about remaining standing in sambo after a big throw equals an ippon whereas in judo you do not have to remain standing, conversely, I teach the fellas to bury the dude all the way to the mat with the throw negating any wiggle room that might be established and to be in a great position to commence newaza if in fact it is not scored ippon.
As far as i seen Judo wrestlers tend to use more pickups throws where you have to pick the guy in the air before throwing him (probably because it will score you ippon) in sambo there are alot of throws from standing position where you don't have to do that podsechki, zatsepi, podnojki,(Steve probably knows the english names of the throws i don't) even some leg takedown can be executed without lifting the guy up.
So I would say that Sambo guys use leg more and probably more efficient, since there are some throws that allowed in sambo and not allowed in judo.
Osae: Yep, fall on them hard, right?
Just from Russian translation.
podsechki = sweep.
zatsepi = reaps.
podnojki = blocks.
That's just my guess thou.
My understanding - and I don't really speak Russian - is that:
podsechka = sweep; I have been told that this is an old word refering to "a sickle" used for cutting wheat and other grains when farming - the sweeping and cutting motions being the same.