Sanctioning of MMA in Michigan

Underground
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OK, now about those New Jersey rules....the older lady who sat at Mr. Low's right said that those rules had many issues.  I forgot the word she used, but she stated that for instance, New Jersey doesn't charge money for what I thought she said was the fighter licenses or promoter licenses.  I cannot remember. 

This brought them to another HUGE issue for the MI Boxing Commission.  They are losing a lot of money each and every year.  They don't make money or break even.  They have to find ways if they are going to sanction MMA, to make more money so that they aren't in deeper than they already are.  Currently, they make money from the fighter license fees, promoter license fees, and fines handed down to fighters who violate rules (such as dirty drug tests).  Also, the lady said that there were some serious flaws with the proposed "draft" of legislation for MMA in Michigan which was based on the New Jersey rules. Another thing that they said is that there could be another "commission" formed to handle MMA and they aren't against that.  It's all about the lack of money though.  It makes more sense most likely to just keep it under the boxing commission (according to them), but they really said that they don't really mind either way.

The lobbyists when done then asked if there were any questions that they could answer.  An older gentleman then stated something to the effect of "I know that there have been deaths in MMA.  How many have there been?"  The guys said that they weren't sure.  I was a bit flabbergasted at that.  Come on, that's the biggest stereotype out there and they didn't hit that softball that was lobbed at them.  I wanted them to smash that one out of the park.  They were asked if they had a sponsor for legislation.  They did and it is Barbara Farrah (Dem) from Southgate.  They also stated that there will be many more and were very confident about that.  The boxing commission stated that there would need to be legislation introduced so that MMA would not violate state boxing laws.

Joe Byrd then said that he supports MMA and thinks it would be really good for the state of Michigan.  He said that with everyone else outside of Michigan supporting it, Michigan should embrace it as well and share in the success.  It was really cool to see that a dyed in the wool boxing guy would be so supportive of MMA here.  He said, "It makes no sense to have Indiana and Ohio doing it and Michigan not be a part of it."  He reiterated that it would be good for Michigan.

After they were done, he asked if anyone else had anything to say regarding MMA.  I raised my hand and he was told that he could hear me if he so chose.  He said that he had no problem with it.

 


OK, I will type the rest tonight.  It is after 7pm and I need to leave work and get some dinner!

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NJ does charge Promoter/Fighter licenses...

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I did have a part in setting up a separate commission for MMA in North Dakota and I have talked to the commission in Michigan regarding MMA. If I can be of help let me know.

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Awesome.  We  need to show up to the next meeting in force.  Do you know when the next meeting is?

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Where in Michigan are the meetings held at?

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thanks Ed. I was about to say the same.

Was the woman legal counsel for the Board?

I'd be interested in what you said annil. Interesting stuff.

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Awesome!!!!!!

South of Flint here. Let me know if there's anything I can do to help out as well.

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Professional Members  Public Members
Albert J. Low Kevin D. Moore
Douglas J. Maskin James K. Sype
Earle L. Robinson Charles Zurawski
Joe Byrd
 
  These are the members of the commission
   
   

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Link to Boxing Commission on State of MI website

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Board Meeting - June 14, 2007 10:00am

Contact:  MI Boxing Commission 517-241-9288
Agency: Labor & Economic Growth


This meeting will be held at 10:00am in Conference Room 1. Our offices are located at 2501 Woodlake Circle, Okemos, MI.
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I did some lobbying here in Washington State to get the laws written
correctly for us...you have to be really careul and read EVERYTHING
they throw in there. Some things that seems aimed at one thing can
negatively affect another.

They were trying to outlaw toughman out here in 2004, but the way it
was written it would have ended amateur MMA altogether (pro MMA
has been legal here since the early 90's). Amateur MMA is not exactly
'regulated', but they included legislation that required the Athletic
Commission be notified of when and where amateur events were going
on.

I'd be happy to offer my two cents if you want any insight.

PS - If you plan to work with or for the UFC lobbyists...get yourself on
the payroll or tell them to take a hike. Watch out that they don't push
for something that only allow the UFC to operate in Michigan.

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ttt for Michigan. I had no idea about the meeting, though I'm glad somebody went. Props to you.

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Damn...I typed out this thing in Word and then pasted. Chunk is missing. I will have to fix this tomorrow as I don't have that Word document with me.

The meetings were held in Okemos which is just to the of east of East Lansing. They were in an office park right by the Jolly Rd. and Okemos Rd. intersection (right by the I-96 expressway).

Ed and Loretta, I am sorry that I wasn't more clear on what was said about the difference between how NJ does business and how MI does business in the athletic commissions. However, I thought the lady did say that NJ did NOT charge and was shocked as MI will have to because they are in the red every year. She made it seem that NJ is somehow getting by just fine, but MI loses money every year. With the state of the MI economy and the upcoming budget cuts, this could put the lid on any MMA right away unless there are some ideas in which MMA can at least break even as far as with the commission.

Loretta, I will get the names of the Boxing commission tomorrow. I will know her name if I see or hear it again. I will report back to everyone who the members are. I have some names, but not all.

I do not have the date or time of the next meeting FatheadD, but I will be finding out all of this information very soon and will pass this along as I hear of it.

Wontsubmit, I will probably be contacting you via mma.tv mail if you don't mind. Thank you very much for your offer to help.

Big thanks to all who help. Thanks!

Question...should I just keep updating this thread with information as I learn of it?

So I stopped earlier when they invited me to talk to the commission.

I introduced myself and thanked the members of the commission for allowing me to speak to them. Before I could really begin to talk about what I wanted, I needed to clear that misconception that there have been deaths in MMA as the commission member had said to the two lobbyists. I told him that there have been no deaths in sanctioned MMA events here in the United States. I did tell them of the death of Douglas Dedge which was not in the US, but in Ukraine. Also, I made it very clear that he fought against doctors orders and that he had a pre-existing medical condition that would cause him to black out. It was nice to present this to them and I saw many heads bob up and down as if they were happy to hear this news. The guy I was directing my answer to seemed almost to be a bit peeved that I had countered his misconception. I was very polite and told him that it is often thought of as being deadly, but it couldn't be further from the truth.

I explained to all of them that I have been a lifelong MA enthusiast as my dad went back to college when I was very young and he attended Cumberland College and was a judo player on their team. I explained that he was a champion as was his team (showdowns with San Jose St. from what I remember. I was 8). Anyway, I shared my experiences with training as a judo player, and then when the UFC came onto the scene, I got involved in some vale tudo matches where one discipline was usually all one brought into the fight. I explained my love for those fights, just two men, their skill and their desire to compete. At that time, the early UFC style fights were shocking and quite honestly, were pretty vicious at times. That is where the loose term "human cockfighting" got its name. I stated that it should be noted that SEG was the former owner and it wasn't long before bans were in place in cities and later, states. From UFC to smaller shows, they were shut down and taken off the PPV providers list of programs offered.

I wanted it to be clear that as time moved along, "mixed" martial arts started to really grow. Mixed martial arts is the cross over of many different arts such as BJJ, Judo, MT, wrestling, boxing, etc. I told them that it was learned from those early UFC (vale tudo) events that if you came to rumble with your kung fu, you were quickly humbled by an art you were unfamiliar with. I think that we learned a lot from those early events. For instance, by not being an evolved and complete fighter, you could be hurt badly. There wasn't safety of fighters in mind. In short, I told them that the early days of vale tudo showed us how NOT to be as a sport. As these fighters became more well rounded, the safer than the fighters actually got. That, with the introduction of more rules/regulations and time limits, this further promoted safety for the fighters and gave fans a competitive sport.

As for the sanctioning, I told them that it is very commonly thought that Zuffa, after purchasing the UFC from SEG that they were the ones to implement the rules that New Jersey now uses. I wanted it clear that the lobbyists needed to know that this started before their client (Zuffa) came into ownership. After New Jersey sanctioned MMA, next came Nevada.

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At this point, I told the commission that true fans of MMA who want it sanctioned want at least 3 things:

  1. Sanctioned events that are legit in every way. All precautions taken to ensure a positive experience for all (promoters, fighters, fans, etc.)

  2. Safety for fighters

  3. Fair pay for fighters

I went back to the gentleman who held the event in Saginaw. I said, "Mr... I was against you having your show in Saginaw because it appeared to be shady as an "amateur" show that was going to only "pay" for travel. You were sent a cease and desist letter and you still held the event. I told as many people as I could that would listen not to attend your event. NOt because I don't care for you, but I want to ensure that you don't give a black eye to the sport here before it has been approved and also to ensure that fighters aren't going to get hurt or screwed over. After hearing you talk, I don't think that you are an unfair man at all and I hope the day comes that MMA is sanctioned so that I can be the first person to buy tickets to one of your events." He seemed to not only be supportive of my comments, but he gave me his card after and stated that he wants to stay in touch so that I can be there to attend one of his shows in the future.

I talked about how I embrace MMA now and not the old sloppy vale tudo of the past. I think it is a fun, fast paced sport that is giving us good athletes and great role models.

Everyone, I am getting tired and so I am leaving gaps here and I apologize for that.

So I closed after some other things I added and told the commission that I do NOT stand just with the UFC, I stand for all MMA which would be KOTC, Pride, UFC, or any other organization that does good business. They thanked me and then after MMA business was done, I left as did the UFC lobbyists.

They called me in the hall and gave me their cards and asked if I could help them as they go further to try to put this into law. I agreed to help.

We exchanged e-mails since and I am goign to testify in front of the House Regulatory Reform Committee next month. We are to meet in a few weeks to talk more in person.

Again, I apologize for leaving gaps and the earlier screwed up cut and paste. I left a chunk out and I know when I am done in a few minutes I will later remember important things that I left out.

I don't think I typed well enough how it went over. I think I did an ok job and they thanked me and were really nice to me (the commission).

I appreciate each and everyone's offer to help. I may be taking you up on this tomorrow or over the weekend and into next week as I am on vacation and will have more free time.

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Rock&Roll is correct on the time and location of the next meeting. HOwever, that number is for crap! They say to call that number as these meetings are subject to change at last moment. That number told me nothing! Just a phone tree and no operator.

I took the day off and went to the meeting. I am glad I went.

Also, I think that we DO need to show up in more numbers next time. It sure doesn't look bad! Look at what just one person has done so far!

I think of myself as very educated in MMA, however it would be great to be able to exchange notes with people in the event that I have nothing to add. I know that there are so many more of you that know more than me and we should really be heard....because they are listening!

Oh yeah, they know that this sport is blowing up at such a rapid rate. If they can justify it (in dollars and cents) and at least break even...I am sure that the commission will at least be supportive. There is the issue of entering it into law, but it doesn't hurt to gain the support of the commission.

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ttt

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Sounds very interesting! June 14th is the day before KOTC at Soaring Eagle

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ttt

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I am going to repost what I wrote yesterday because I think that some got lost when I was doing the cut and paste.

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OK everyone, here is a better rundown from the Michigan Boxing Commission meeting that was held last Thursday, March 22, 2007.

The meeting is chaired by Mr. Albert Low. He seems to be a really nice guy. He introduced a new member of the commission - Mr. Joe Byrd (Chris Byrd's father). Everyone else introduced themselves and then they started business.

I will spare you all the actual "boxing" business. It was actually really interesting and there was an issue with the boxer Daniel Neal who fought Ronnie Hearns (Hitman's son). The commission said that it was the first time in over 20 years that a boxer "failed to compete". His purse was withheld and the commission and everyone else in the room was able to view the video of the fight.

Other than the long debated issue about Daniel Neal, they voted on some boxers that tested positive for drugs.

After an hour or so, there was a break. After the break, they finished up some boxing business and then the discussion turned to MMA. Mr. Low stated that he understands that MMA is getting very big with fans all over the place and said that there have been many "amateur" shows popping up all over. As a matter of fact, he said that there was a show in Saginaw that was sent a "cease and desist" order. That show was held anyway. There will be a hearing regarding this, but the date has not yet been set. (The person who partnered with Adorable Promotions was in attendance as I mentioned earlier. Very good guy and he spoke a bit later.)

Now, at this point a commission member (I cannot think of her name at this time), she said that not only is professional MMA, but AMATEUR MMA is also in violation of state boxing regulations. This is where I was enlightened quite a bit because I thought that the whole thing was "if you aren't paid, it is OK" because they just don't sanction pro MMA. I had thought amateur shows were under the radar. Guess not. It was clearly stated that as of today, MMA in Michigan would fall under the jurisiction of the state Boxing Commission. Therefore, the rules to not allow for any strikes that aren't legal in boxing. So kicks, knees, elbows....they are all illegal in boxing, therefore there is no sanctioning.

Mr. Low had a comment that I appreciated. He said that he "could do with or without MMA. But if we want it, it has just got to be regulated." He seemed to be OK with it from the time I spent in that meeting. He seems open minded, but wants this to be regulated/sanctioned.

The gentleman that put on the show that was held in Saginaw was able to speak to the commission. He stated that he has been involved for a long time with amateur boxing and has worked with many people familiar with grappling and other martial arts. He said that he feels that he this show should have been allowed under a particular law/ruling that stated full contact karate was protected (or something to this effect). He was talking and I couldn't write fast enough to directly quote him. He said that "the Battle of Detroit" has been held in the neighborhood of 37 years and this is an show that has never been shut down. I want to state again that I do not want to name this gentleman as I haven't talked to him again yet and do not want to put his name on the forum as I haven't gotten permission. The more he spoke, the more I want to be supportive of this guy once MMA is sanctioned and he puts on shows. This guy really is active with kids by training them and advising them. He wants to do the same with MMA. He spoke about the benefits of getting kids into the combat sports as a way of finding direction and discipline. He was very well known to members of the commission. He seemed to be well respected even though he happenened to put on a show that wasn't sanctioned recently.

After he was done, Mr. Low introduced two gentlemen who are working on behalf of the UFC to do whatever is necessary to get MMA sanctioned in Michigan. These two guys really stood out too as they looked like a million bucks. They were really kind and talked about the UFC's success, how it fights under rules defined by a state's athletic/boxing commission, the safety of the fighters, how huge the sport is growing, and the like. Each man spoke for about 5 minutes total. Oh, they spoke about Mark Ratner who was the head of the NSAC, left his post there to join the UFC. The guys stated that Mark Ratner wants to make himself very available to each and every member of the commission by offering his phone number and possibly coming to a future meeting if they would like. Mr. Low stated that he had been in contact with Mark Ratner about 4 or 5 times on the phone. I think that the two gentlemen at the meeting had forwarded the rules that they called "Unified MMA rules" which were from the State of New Jersey.