Oh, in regards to Rorion avoiding any single style, NAH, no way
He called us before UFC 3, but at that point we had the school open about 3 weeks, no fighters ready obviously :)
"He was probably known by every major "kickboxing" team in the country."
So are alot of other kickboxers bic, but I cant name any of em..I dont know one from another..Niether does anyone else out of those circles. Ask the guy at the bar stool next to ya who he is..but that dude knows cung le! thats my point..Cung le is friggen popular..the only san shou dude anyone outside the loop knows.
lkfmdc,
Why does Cung Claim to be undefeated?
From his site
"Cung Le is a three time world champion fighter. Pound for pound, he is one of the most exciting fighters today with an undefeated record in San Shou kickboxing and Mixed Martial Arts."
And then last night in his interview he even said he had never lost.
(edited after reading wikipedia thing cause it answered it kind of)
I read his wikipedia thing and it says that was when he was an amateur, is the amatuer ranks harder than pro san shou?
never lost as a PRO (6-0 in MMA now, 17-0 in PRO San Da)
His amateur career is like 50 something and 3, but it shoudl be 2. He got ripped off at last world championships. But his first two loses at worlds were legit
Lol, ok buddy.
First, the most popular martial art in Mongolia is wrestling, by a million billion times. It's part of their cultural identity like Baseball here or soccer in England. Saying otherwise is BS.
Second, yeah, it's heavily promoted in China by the government, because the government wanted a national sport for propaganda. What does that have to do with the man on the street?
As judo already pointed out, so there's a huge base out of a billion people, but Cung Lee is the only name in the sport? He fought kickboxers who had never been in a San Shou match in their lives for title fights but not the elite of the sport? Where were they?
It's a fringe sport, and he was a big fish in a small pond.
thats my point..Cung le is friggen popular..the only san shou dude anyone outside the loop knows.
I certainly agree with that, but the same can be said for just about every combat sport. Cung is THE representative for San Shou in MMA.
ex. ask the same guy:
Name the 2008 NCAA Wrestling National Champion (at any weight!)
Name An american judoka to win an olympic medal?
Name the ADCC absolute winner?
on and on..
jbapk, do you bother to even ready your own posts? You contradict yourself then try and act smug? LMFAO
- "the most popular martial art in Mongolia is wrestling" -
So, ergo, San Da isn't popular there? Football is the most popular sport in the US right now, so baseball must not be popular.... GROAN
I've actually met and we've actually competed against the Mongolians. It is hugely popular there. Which is what was stated originally.
- "Second, yeah, it's heavily promoted in China by the government, because the government wanted a national sport for propaganda. What does that have to do with the man on the street?" -
IT WAS THE #3 MOST POPULAR SHOW ON TV THERE! Everyone on the street knows what San Da is and they know all the top King of San Da fighters like Liu Hai Long, etc
- "so there's a huge base out of a billion people, but Cung Lee is the only name in the sport?" -
He's the only name the undeground knows, I hate to break it to you, but the underground is not the world
- "He fought kickboxers who had never been in a San Shou match in their lives for title fights but not the elite of the sport? Where were they?" -
He beat the San Da champion of CHINA... just because you haven't seen it doesn't change that fact
Underground logic, it takes the short bus every morning
"Name the 2008 NCAA Wrestling National Champion (at any weight!)"
Well they might not be able to name the current ncaa wrestling champs but they can name more than one wrestler.
I mean seriously, the common man knows brock lesnar, dan gable, kurt angle, john smith, rulon gardner, etc...
They have no freegin clue of any san shou guy other than Cung..At all, hell even I wouldnt be able to name any other san shou guys if Brad Burrick (who trained with us) hadnt done san da or I didnt read about em in lkf's posts..
LKF,
In your opinion was Cung the best pro san shou guy in the world? I mean he lost as an amatuer, but in like mma, that amounts to nothing if as a pro you are world champ and undefeated..is it different in San Shou/San Da?
Sifu Ross -
Is it fair to say the Sanda/SanShou competition at the World Championship level is a lot higher than the competition that Le generally faced as a pro?
Max
Is it fair to say the Sanda/SanShou competition at the World Championship level is a lot higher than the competition that Le generally faced as a pro?
Yes!
"So, ergo, San Da isn't popular there?"
Lol, you fat retard! You said it was the most popular martial in the country!
"Sanshou or Sanda is the biggest MA in China and Mongolia"
You did not just say it was popular, are you to stupid to realize your post is still avalible for everyone to read?
YAWN, still gasping and taking wild swings I see....
- "You said it was the most popular martial in the country!" -
Did I? WHERE? Don't seem to see that post anywhere? I said it was very popular, you said it isn't. I can point to the ## rating on national TV, the fact everyone on the street knows the sport and the names of the fighters. I also know a lot of Mongolian San Da fighetrs
And you are who? And you know what?
Oh, that's right, you can't even tell the difference between different screen names....
Cung Le is in the top 5 in his weight class in San Shou/San Da... he took Third three times, one "loss" a clear rip off and bias against the American team (mostly due to the hatred of the Americah coach who is hated back home in China). The two legit losses, Cung lost to the guy who went on to win the world tournament (the first loss was to the then 2 time winner already)
in "pound for pound" he might be in the top 20... it's hard to say, especially if we're talking about San Shou/San Da guys who might make a cross over to MMA. Some San Da fighters have a style that would transition well, others not so much so.
The Russian who beat Cung Le the first time was a world tournament winnner 3 or 4 times. He then went on to fight and destroy a lot of Muay Thai people under full Muay Thai rules. IE he's a bad man
The second Russian who beat Cung is Ataev Bajiht (I've seen various spellings of his name though). He is like 9-1 in RINGS and fought once in PRIDE.
"There was alot going on as far as ducking fighters in those first UFCS."
people always say that, but nobody can EVER mention the name of anyone that applied, was a credible threat, and was denied.
if you want to try, please name one now.
"I said it was very popular, you said it isn't."
Did I? WHERE? I said wrestling was more popular.
And saying "It is hugely popular there. Which is what was stated originally." isn't true either since, that's not what I was responding to, which is why I assumed you had made the original post.
"And you are who?"
And who are you? Weren't you Mark Trips buddy?
LMFAO.... "oooppppss, I guess that wasn't your post"
LAME
I am someone who has been involved in San Shou/San Da since it was introduced in this country, and still promotes it and trains a lot of its champions and active fighters. I am also a friend of Cung's and have known him since 1995. So I know a lot about this sport.
The pertinent question remains, who are you to make wild (and inaccurate) claims about the sport?
The first guy's name is something like Ramazon Ramazonov... I saw he was fighting on a Muay Thai card in the middle east of all places last year, KO'd his opponent from what I hear. In San Shou, he certainly had great HARD throws, but he also had very hard kicks, pre 1997 you didn't see the hands as much due to the scoring, and you still don't see knees in Chinese run IWUF world competition (which SUCKS), in fact, Ataev got KO'ed from knees in pride since he wasn't used to them (why he didn't get more familiar with them before going to teh fight is anyone's guess?)
lkfmdc, Why did those guys not fight pro San Shou? Im kind of at a loss here in understanding why..(probably cause I dont do the sport)..I mean Cung Le apparently made a decent living with it and teaching..Why if you could beat Cung wouldnt you come take his belts?
What was a normal payday for Cung doing San Shou bouts?
Also, he lost to those guys it seems many years ago right? Do you think he is good enough now to beat them? He has improved, hasnt he..
Thanks.
- "Why did those guys not fight pro San Shou?"
In Russia, the pro San Shou league was called "Draka" and Ramazon was a championin the Draka league. Now, like I said, he's fighting pro Muay Thai as well
The Chinese pro league, "King of San Da" didn't take off until around '99 and characteristically of China, it was to make China stars, ie they often brought unprepared Americans over to fight rather than the San Da guys! We tried to get fights over there to no avail.
Ramazon is still active, but I think he has gone up in weight. Ataev fought in MMA as a heavyweight. <Maybe that is why re-matches didn't happen
Hey guys, Cung was/is the poster boy for sanshou. But before MMA exploded even top promotions like Strikeforce didn't have the $ to pay for fighters flying from Russia or china to compete over here. The Draka org did it for a few shows but quickly went under. So Cung fought who was available in the states. It is nice to see some positive posts on San shou these days, we've been taking shit from the UG for awhile now!