"Regardless of whether or not Gong was among the best in the world he was still ISKA Muay Thai Champ."
Yes, but ISKA title is not a very important title in MT and is not evidence that he is a top guy. World Champions in kickboxing are a dime a dozen. Who they beat for the title is what counts not simpling having a belt. I have seen some "world champions" that were jokes.
K dub please defend your position that Gong was a top guy and that it is laughable that to say he wasn't. Or have you discovered that you were mistaken?
"jack, that is occasionally true, but is more common in situations like Osbourne's and Cope's. More often the Thai will try to beat the living shit out of the farang rather than risk losing. It's an honor thing.
For a "lite" version of what I'm talking about watch what Yodecha does to Jason Chambers after Jason shoves him in their "fight' on the first episode of the Human Weapon show. He gets a little annoyed and basically lays a smackdown on him."
He may have whacked him once or twice a little harder, as if to say dont be a douche I am going tip tap with you, but I dont think he hit chambers with one shot that was anywhere near 100% (at least of what they showed)
There is also a difference between the thais that are hell bent on crushing the farang they face and those that take dives. The first are usually real fighters the second are scrubs looking for a payday and happy to get it.
I am rather sick of Americans "fighting" in thailand and being so damn proud they beat a guy who took a dive or they fought some scrub who is so far from the level that is normaly associated with hearing a fighter is thai. Sheridan's fight comes to mind. That guy, although not thai, was no fighter came in fat as could be and dropped after the first knee he ate. It had mixture of the above.
"Sheridan's fight comes to mind. That guy, although not thai, was no fighter came in fat as could be and dropped after the first knee he ate. It had mixture of the above."
is that the one where it was a japanese guy brought in who dropped the american like a sack of potatos? the american went down hard and for some reason the guy didnt throw another good shot after that till he got "tko'd"
"He may have whacked him once or twice a little harder, as if to say dont be a douche I am going tip tap with you, but I dont think he hit chambers with one shot that was anywhere near 100% (at least of what they showed)"
That's pretty much what I said.
"Jongsanan Fairtex was an ISKA Champ, is his title worthless as well?"
Yes, and if he knew you well enough he would tell you that himself.
Jesus, I mean if you think the ISKA is shit when it comes to MT you need to learn about the sport. In terms of MT it's a fucking JOKE.
I have trained at Sityodtong, am a trainer at Sityodtong USA, and know Kru Toy (Yod Tong's son) and Yodecha as well as a bunch of other Thai trainer and fighters. Unless they have traveled outside of Thailand they have no idea who the fuck Toddy, Kit, Chai, etc are. almost no one in Thailand does, at least not in terms of their MT accomplishments.
Jognsanan is not considered a great fighter because he has an ISKA title if that is what you are getting at.
It is a bit like Saekson's IKF title. Saekson is a legend but that title is relatively meaningless. He fought once for it against some poor sap. He beat the guy down so badly the title was never defended. Great fighters are defined by their competition not alphabet soup titles. I have got to agree with wizzle on this one.
I am still waiting for K dub to defend his ignorant comment.
I was in a small town in Thailand for awhile. I saw 5 matches between Thais and Westerners and 4 out of 5 were works. Blatant, disgraceful works where the Thais would run out, hit the foreigner once to prove they could, then basically stand there and wait for the first meaningful strike thrown their way so they could dive to the mat in mock anguish.
A lot of these guys fight up to 5 nights a week so taking a couple lumps and getting enough for a bottle of whiskey is a good deal to them, they are tough as nails.
My trainer in Thailand had 400 plus fights. I witnessed him drink 3 or 4 beers, smoke 10-15 cigarettes then jump in the ring to fight a young up and comer in the main event for 5 rounds, dropping a very narrow decision to him.
"Long story short neither Gong nor Kope are/were anything special in kickboxing."
Well, Gong was something special in that he was a huge figure for Muay Thai in the US, and had a hand in helping raise the profile for the sport here.
On the level of international competition, no, he wasn't championship caliber compared to the Thai stadium champions or the K-1 Max champions. There's people who say anyone who isn't on that level "sucks", and I think that's stupid as all hell, but whatever. Kinda sick of arguing about this to be honest.
Ludwig had around a .500 record in K-1 Max and Gong beat him in a close decision (and a good fight). I don't think anyone should try and argue he wasn't K-1 Max level, but he also wasn't on the level of a K-1 Max champion.