scuffler, i saw on your bio, you have been training in cacc, pre-internet. how did you learn about it?

Larry Hartsell

I had to go to the splash page to see what my bio says ;)

I actually started adding catch based submissions to my kickboxing based style earlier than what the bio says. By '84 we were doing some crude submission work and trying to blend it into our game.

We had two pretty good wrestlers (RIP Alan) to work with and along my kickboxing and boxing background we tried to use a JKD 4 ranges type framework built around that.

so when you were training in "crude submission" work, Larry Hartsell actually spoke of CACC and it's history or you were actually practicing Catch but didn't know it at the time?
it would at least appear that the circle of Catch pratictioners is so small that to run into someone in the 80's would be tantamount to hitting the lottery.
was Larry Hartsell a wrestler before JKD?

Much of Hartsell's grappling was straight from LeBell and he was quick to say so. We were aware that it was largely based upon "oldschool" wrestling.

We didn't make an issue of where a hold or technique came from though. If it worked we used it and used it from a wrestlers base.

Our grappling admittedly became far more sophisticated after the first UFC and material became readily available. I do however believe that much of our early success in grappling events related to our background and early start.

By the time UFC 1 came along I was teaching grappling as a primary ends. In other words using striking skills to close the gap and obtain the clinch and then work from there. I told all my MA friends that grapplers would win all the NHB events with ease. They all thought me to be mad. Maybe we were all right ;)

you trendsetter you...

I once saw two kids get into a fight (this was about 1990) or so. one was a bully with a green or brown belt in karate (or some shit), the other was just a fat kid minding his own business. the bully began to pick on the fat kid, the fat kid became upset. they began to have words "come on fatso, I know karate" and such. The fat kid rushed the karate kid threw him to the ground got on top of him and beat him bloody before the teacher could stop him. point of the story...don't mess with the fat kid (cause know he might bring a gun to school and off know what). I've since thought about that and realized what a brilliant and simple strategy that is.

Stories like that are empowering to us fat people ;)

I guess I didn't answer all the original posters questions.

Hartsell had been an amateur wrestler before training with Lee, but he was also a Judo BB. Oddly I didn't see much judo influence on his style. Alot more boxing, oldschool wrestling and even silat showed through than the judo did.

I had only a passing interest in the history until the early 90's.


Your story reminds me of a fight I once saw. Two high school kids squared off behind a 7-11. One took a fighting stance like a boxer. The other closed the distance level changed and executed a perfect double leg. He picked the guy up and ran him the 5-10 feet to the wall of the 7-11 and smacked him into it, he then turned and dumped the guy on the ground, and that was the end of the fight. A little wrestling goes a long way.