Self-defense & Joint Manipulations

I'm writing this post from the assumption that, in a self defense situation, it is more beneficial to render an opponent inoperable by severely damaging his structural integrity and mobility, but attacking his skeletal structure and joints's better and more effective to BREAK (or dislocate) something! Not only physically, but also mentally.

In that vein, what do you find are the best (most effective) systems for accomplishing this, both standing and on the groud? Are they modern budo/arts? Are they traditional? Why do you chose your picks?

I already practice bjj, so I'm somewhat biased towards its effectiveness on the ground (perhaps Catch wrestling, as practiced by T. Ceccine, is equal, or even better...), but I would like to hear about the others.

As for standing arts: traditional, like JJJ or Aikido? Modern hybrids: Krav Maga, Sambo, Ross, etc?

Looking for all your opionions, stories, and imput.


Oh yeah....

feel free to debate some of the premises (striking vs. jt. manipulation in S.D), that I have base my post on....

if striking is better, which and why? I would think that Muay Thai is the best because it is terribly effective, and not bio-mechanically complicated...

please, no trolling...


For a self-defense situation, I would definitely go with a standing style, whether it be striking or joint locks/throws. That way you can defend yourself somewhat, and more importantly, get out of there before you get shot or stabbed or whatever.

That all depends on your BJJ instructor, if it is just sport that he is concerned with then self defense is obvioulsy not the point of his training or teaching.

There are however more "complete" BJJ instructors out there that teach the self defense and standing aspects of Jiu Jitsu, find one and they can answer your question for you.


Shoot Dubs - then elbows to the face

Yeah, those are both better advice than mine in a street fight, but IMO "self-defense" and "fighting" are two totally different beasts. Not that I'm arguing with you guys or anything like that, just offering a different perspective.

Combat S.A.M.B.O.

nuff said

Best joint manipulation while standing?

Muay Thai (MT) round house kick to the knee, Jab-cross combo to attacker's face . . .

Joint manipulation can potentially help in a self defense situation; however, they are rarely useful in a manner that many TMA instructors wish you to believe.

Large joint manipulation, kick to their knee, that directly affect mobility are the most useful. Part of the reason is that even if the attacker is on some sort of creative pharmaceutical they still can't walk without a knee.

Small joint manipulation is less successful and IMO should only be used in transitional movements (from one position to another). Yes, they can be useful but the jab-cross roundkick combo will be more useful more often. Practice the techniques that will bring you a higher rate of success a greater amount of the time.

this should get the trolls going...

I consider quality "Self Defense" classes to be
centered on teaching students how to respond to
commited attackes; like bear hugs, wrist grabs and
collar grabs... a good system would incorporate quick
strikes to soft spots (groin, neck, eye) to set up a
throw or a lock... these types of classes will only
help you fend off untrained pussies and drunks... of
all the styles you listed, I would try Krav Maga if it
is certified, but it still might suck...

I consider quality "fighting" classes to be centered
on teaching students hot to respond if they ever
square of and start fighting... the obvious choice
would be boxing, kickboxing, and some type of
grappling... sparring is a must...

I am a second degree BB under Mater Chaka Zulu in Zujitsu.

Standing joint locks work as long as you are taught properly. We have many CO's and Court Officers that train in the system, so there has been plenty of real world tests. I myself have used it in a situation where I was grabbed by two attackers. You simply have to know what you are doing and when it is appropriate.

Zujitsu is related to Sanuces Ryu under Master Moses Powell.

Powell was a student of Professor Vee. (Florendo Vistacion)

Vee was a student of Kiyose Nakae, a JJJ Master.