Recently I've been playing with using the type of spider guard that looks like the bicep slicer submission on one or both arms to stop bullfighter passes (where he grabs both your pants). It's quite neat. Have you guys tried it? Like it? No?
I don't do it much myself but I find fighting against the bicep slicer guard quite irritating, especially if your opponent has game with that position (as I'm sure you do!)
Interestingly enough, there was this blue belt at Roger's academy who used the slicer spider guard a lot but I manged to pass it every time using the same pass over and over. The pass that I used was the standard one against the scissor sweep, where you thread your arm over the top leg and cup the other leg. I'm sure you guys have seen it. If you can first get that other leg off your body by using some hip movement and then smash the slicer leg, that pass seems to work well...
Love it - here is a listing of DVDs that cover what I call "arm lasso" techniques...
Basic arm lasso sweep/far knee grip (Extreme Open Guard - Tinguinha)
When X puts his weight on you, grab the far outside knee, and use the lasso to pull his weight to you. Use the foot on the hip to drive his weight up and using the lassoed are a carry him over to the side to complete the sweep.
Basic arm lasso sweep variation/far knee grip (BJJ Spirits)
When X puts his weight on you, grab the far outside knee, and use the lasso to pull his weight to you. Use your far leg and put it across his stomach and hook his near lovehandle to drive his weight up to your head and using the lassoed arm to carry him over to the side, picking his far knee up to your head to complete the sweep.
Arm lasso when he pulls back sweep/far knee grip (Extreme Open Guard - Tinguinha)
When X moves back from the arm lasso, grab his far knee and sit up with him. Pull him in and scoot close as you pull the knee in to your body. The leg that you are using as a lasso slides under X’s far thigh to use as a hook to get the sweep. As he is close, use the arm controlling the knee as well as the hook to lift X off the ground as you post with the far hook. The key is to get close to have as much weight as you fall to the shoulder.
Arm lasso as he posts his leg as you go for the far sweep/double sleeve control (arm lasso opposite armpit) (Extreme Open Guard - Tinguinha)
As X puts his leg up to avoid the far sweep (you are sitting up at this point), switch grips from the far knee to the far sleeve. The leg with the arm lasso goes from behind his tricep to under his far armpit. Fall to your back bringing his weight on top of you while the free leg hooks the far leg at the thigh. Use your far sleeve control to bring your elbow up to your head and around the far side of your head as you use your legs to pick him up and bring him up towards the close side of your head as you sweep.
Arm lasso (sitting up, far armpit) to far side omoplata (Extreme Open Guard - Tinguinha)
As you go for the sitting up sweep and he posts his leg, as you go for sweep 2, he put his weight forward, bringing his posted leg closer to your head making it hard to get the sweep. Bring the sleeve controlled arm down to your far hip to set up the omoplata. Shift you hips away from the arm lasso and let go of the arm lasso grip. Keep shifting your hips as you turn for the far side omoplata. Grab the belt and sit up to finish.
Arm lasso sweep to (sitting up) to near side omoplata/one grip (Extreme Open Guard - Tinguinha)
As X moves back, you only have the arm lasso control. Post your far hand behind you, not allowing X to come to your side. As he comes, the knee in the arm lasso to the ground in turtle position. Roll over the arm lasso shoulder to come up into a near side omoplata.
Arm lasso sweep as X stands up/near side ankle grip (Extreme Open Guard - Tinguinha)
As X breaks the grip on the far knee, he stands to pass the guard. If his far leg is too far to grab, use your far arm under your far leg to control his opposite ankle. Your far leg is posted on his far leg to control his distance. Quickly move your far leg behind his ankle and chop the back of his ankle forward as you open out and down his lassoed arm and finish the sweep, in a good position to finish the kneebar.
Arm lasso sweep as he goes to combat base/near side ankle grip (BJJ Spirits)
As he sits in combat base, take your far leg and get a reverse de la riva hook on his near leg. Turn your body inside and grab his near ankle. Open the hook out as you pull his ankle out completing the sweep.
Arm lasso sweep as he puts his weight on the arm lasso/switching grips (BJJ Spirits)
As X sprawls on the lasso, driving your legs to the ground, switch your grip from same side lasso control to far side lasso control, as you do this, get your hips out to the near side to give you space to sit up. Scoot back and sit up, reaching across his back to his far side lat. The leg controlling the arm lasso goes underneath his far thigh, hooking it for the sweep. Scoot close as you pull his far lat to the near side and use the far hook to pick up his thigh and sweep him to the near side.
Near side omoplata from arm lasso/near side knee grip (BJJ Spirits)
As you have the arm lasso, bring the far leg across his waist to go for basic arm lasso sweep variation. Use your far side arm to control the NEAR side knee (instead of the far side knee). Post on your far side shoulder, driving your hips up and towards him, to give you space to spin under him for the omoplata. Use your leg lassoing his arm to post on his hip to raise your hips higher off the ground. Tuck your head in and roll into the omoplata.
Andre Galvao sweep from standing arm lasso/double sleeve control (BJJ Spirits)
With the arm lasso, kick your leg through and use your ankle to hook around his back. Kick your far leg to the opposite side, allowing X to pass around your guard. Control his far side wrist and bring it as far towards your legs as possible. As X puts his chest on your chest, use your leg with the arm lasso to pull his weight over you so you come out on top. Continue rolling as he comes on top you have the perfect set-up for an omoplata.
Basic arm lasso sweep/double sleeve control with Cobrinha lock finish (Cobrinha)
As you sit on your side get the arm lasso, bring your hooking leg all the way behind Xs back and turn back to put your back flat on the mat, controlling his far sleeve with your far arm. Pull both knees toward you to bring his weight on top of you. Drop your arm lasso to the floor as you push off his far hip to get the sweep. Keep control of the far sleeve as you post on your elbow to come up to mount. Combat base on the far side and trap his elbow to your hip, squeezing and turning for the Cobrinha shoulder lock.
Cobrinha arm lasso sweep when X stands/ double sleeve control (Cobrinha)
As X stands up, bring his weight to you as you bring his sleeves behind your knees. Pick his hips up, straightening your legs and somersault over your near side as you roll into mount. Sit up into combat base and finish with the Cobrinha shoulder lock.
Arm lasso to standing crab sweep/near side ankle control (Rodrigo Medeiros open guard)
As you get the arm lasso and X stands, turn your body in and get a reverse de la riva hook on Xs near side leg (kick your far leg between X legs and hook your far ankle around X’s thigh), hooking the outside of his thigh. The far arm swings inside and around X’s ankle, trapping his posting ankle. As he brings his near side leg down, grab your own ankle with your far side arm, and bring him down across your body as you bring down the arm lasso for the sweep.
Quarter Guard to kimura/far sleeve grip (Gustavo Machado Quarter guard)
As X fights for far sleeve control, when he posts his hand on the ground, bring your body all the way to his far arm. Release the lasso grip, and attack the kimura on the far side, bringing his weight down onto your body.
Quarter Guard to bicep lock (Gustavo Machado Quarter guard)
As X walks around opposite to the arm lasso, figure-four your legs and pass your arm under his body to come to the top of his shoulder to attack the bicep slicer.
Quarter guard to triangle/switching sleeve grips (Gustavo Machado Quarter Guard)
From arm lasso position, switch grips on sleeves and push him back as you raise your hips, turning over far shoulder, spinning your head under your body, turning all the way into a triangle.
Quarter guard to omoplata/switching sleeve grips (Gustavo Machado Quarter Guard)
From arm lasso position, switch grips on sleeves and push him back as you raise your hips, turning over far shoulder, spinning your head under your body, turning all the way into an omoplata.
these are just quick reference notes, hopefully, they make some sense to other people (X is short for opponent, BTW)
If I missed any instructional with this technique, please post the DVD so I can add it to my list, Thanks!
Forgot Leo Viera's extreme sweeps, damn.
Darn it, mchap. Don't give anyone any bright ideas. I have enough trouble dealing with the lasso.
jonpall: it sounds like you may have worked out a pretty high-percentage way of dealing with this. Do you use your "lassoed" arm to thread through the legs, or the other arm? Just a little more detail might help out (which I need now that mchapman has spilled the beans). Cheers.
First thing I do to defend is take care of the arm that is lassoed. move your hand from the inside of the opponents thigh to the outside. you can control that side better and keep the sweeps/bicep locks under control. Then you can use your free hand to break his grip on your sleeve a la Marcelo Garcia and get back to passing the open guard.
for mythreads - love this guard
mchapman: Thanks for the explanation. I definitely need more flight hours dealing with that version of spider. I have a heck of a time. On a bit of a side note, does the Tinguinha set do a decent job of teaching passing this sort of guard? Thank you.
oldwrestler: you don't need more info on this, what you have is good enough =) j/k
Awesome list mac.
Ive seen all of those and i use this guard- its very tough to pass if you keep it active.
But you forgot a very effective one!
Marcelo garcia showed this in his gi sreies.
You use the grip on your opponents right arm. You sit up into the hooks guard with the grip and change hands so your right handing is holding his right hand. Your left hand grabs over his back and you sweep him to the left (a reverse hook sweep essentially).
thanks for the additional tech! I don't remember seeing this one on the Gi series before, but I was going to review this set because I seem to remember a pass he had on that set for this guard.
Marcelo has a pass on his Gi series (technique 6) where he goes to a combat base and places his knee over X,s leg to free his grip. He twists his far side wrist to free the first grip, then uses a 2 on 1 to break the grip of the lassoed sleeve.
As Jason GV mentioned Series 2 (Chapters 13 & 14) give two sweeps from sitting up/arm lasso that are similar to Tinguinha's Extreme open guard when you move up to sitting guard (Marcelo starts the position from the sitting up guard)