For testosterone.
To my knowledge, both test used to determine if someone is using testosterone are beatable. I may be mistaken and there may be other tests being used, but if I am, someone please correct me.
The epitestosterone/testosterone ratio test is easily beaten by injecting epitestosterone (something bodybuilders never do because there's no extra boost in performance, and from them comes most knowledge on anabolics, which is why I'd assume not everyone knows this) to even out the ratio (most guys only inject testosterone which raises the red flag). It is also much more expensive and harder to acquire, but still not out of reach for anyone with an extra couple grand to throw around.
The carbon isotope test is beaten by injecting testosterone derived from animal sourced cholesterol to balance out the regular plant sourced stuff that pharmaceutical companies and underground labs manufacture. Because animal sourced cholesterol is more expensive and more of a pain in the ass to get than plant based, no pharmaceutical company uses it, which is why this test is used to determine if there is too high a ratio of plant based (ie, from outside your body) testosterone in someone's system compared to animal based (which they assume is your natural testosterone)...but by injecting animal based testosterone, you even out the ratio and the test becomes useless.
This is not meant to encourage cheating, but to point out that if an idiot like me can figure out how to beat the testing methods used...there are smarter guys who probably figured it out before me, and therefore the testing is largely redundant and only the ignorant or foolish have a real risk of being caught.
I think that it is an excellent idea to brag about how you have figured this out on a forum that the public can view. Good job...
I think this should be public knowledge. People should not falsely think that the testing is effective when it isn't.
Someone posted about this awhile ago and said the easiest way to beat the test is to drink lots of green tea. Something about the tea blocks test and epi-test from being released into the urine.
Someone posted about this awhile ago and said the easiest way to beat the test is to drink lots of green tea. Something about the tea blocks test and epi-test from being released into the urine.
UGCTT_Fillthy, that test WOULD work, but to my knowledge the NSAC doesn't use it.
its pretty easy...there are many ways...either cycle off because they tell u when they are testing (ala the overeem method)..or get your dr. to prescribe meds to keep your ratios low even though u are juicing (ala the lamont peterson method)
Jose Canseco was actually really good for awile.
I was more interested in how you would administer the 'correct' dosage, given that epitestosterone and testosterone metabolize at different rates.
Same as you would if you were using one fact acting anabolic and one slow, I would guess.
its pretty easy...there are many ways...either cycle off because they tell u when they are testing..or get your dr. to prescribe meds to keep your ratios low even though u are juicing (ala the lamont peterson method)
Well, that's the thing, they don't always tell you when they're testing anymore.
Also, cycling off means losing your edge so actually beating the test provides more of an advantage.
If you could describe the Lamont Peterson method in more detail, that would be interesting. I'm not aware of medication that alters ratios like that?
HCG is taken by bodybuilders Post cycle to restart natural testosterone production.
Some people even use HCG during to keep there natural production going.
HCG raises your Epitest levels.
I would bet they test for HCG.
I bet if you take both at the same time you would have a massive boner 24/7 .
Your balls would be awesome looking too.
And if i had made it to the UFC, i wouldn't chance being labeled a cheater for any reason.
cdueck - Someone posted about this awhile ago and said the easiest way to beat the test is to drink lots of green tea. Something about the tea blocks test and epi-test from being released into the urine.
I'm not sure if the NSAC's protocol tests for it, but WADA tests for the masking agent in green tea
UGCTT_Fillthy - I was more interested in how you would administer the 'correct' dosage, given that epitestosterone and testosterone metabolize at different rates.
But it's another example of how guys at the top of the $$Food Chain can afford to stay there.
bingo.
and yes, WADA tests for HCG (not sure about the ACs)
UGCTT_Fillthy - I was more interested in how you would administer the 'correct' dosage, given that epitestosterone and testosterone metabolize at different rates.This. I doubt it would be possible to accurately predict what dosages you would need to have a legal ratio at the time of the test. A pharmokinetic nightmare.
But it's another example of how guys at the top of the $$Food Chain can afford to stay there.
Roidie McDouchebag -I don't know the details, but here is the interview with Kizer where he admits lamont would have passed under NSAC's testsI was more interested in how you would administer the 'correct' dosage, given that epitestosterone and testosterone metabolize at different rates.
Same as you would if you were using one fact acting anabolic and one slow, I would guess.its pretty easy...there are many ways...either cycle off because they tell u when they are testing..or get your dr. to prescribe meds to keep your ratios low even though u are juicing (ala the lamont peterson method)
Well, that's the thing, they don't always tell you when they're testing anymore.
Also, cycling off means losing your edge so actually beating the test provides more of an advantage.
If you could describe the Lamont Peterson method in more detail, that would be interesting. I'm not aware of medication that alters ratios like that?
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=lamont%20peterson%20nsac%20ratio%20%22probably%20not%22&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CFMQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.boxingscene.com%2Fnsacs-kizer-discusses-peterson-scandal-license-issue--52713&ei=o0riT-T0LMnC2wX_9NzqCw&usg=AFQjCNF54eqU8V_-EAc6DQQzQCzSBJDsXA&cad=rja
BoxingScene.com: If VADA was not involved, a lot of people have asked if this was something that the Nevada Commission would have caught in Peterson's system?
Keith Kizer: Probably not from the facts that I know. His [testosterone] level, by his doctor, was kept under 4 to 1, which is the lowest level used... some use 4 to 1 and some use 6 to 1. Even VADA uses 4 to 1, but they also use this CIR [carbon isotope ratio] test to detect synthetic testosterone regardless of your level and that's what happened here.
My understanding is that his level was 3.77 to 1... and I don't know if that was a purposeful attempt to conceal [his use] by keeping it under 4 to 1 or not. That's a question for someone else and not for me. But regardless, the CIR was able to catch it without the level being high.
Roidie McDouchebag - I think this should be public knowledge. People should not falsely think that the testing is effective when it isn't.
I agree, but associating this post with yourself if you do ever become a seasoned pro may come back to haunt you...that was my only point.
since the NSAC only tests the ratio, my guess is that the dr. prescripbes you something that elevates your epitestoserone level, so even if your T level is high, your t:e ratio will be low
I can make it even easier for you...
They dont do a carbon isotope test to check if you have synthetic testosterone in your system... as long as you are within the allowable range... 4:1 (6;1 in nevada) then you are fine.
Which means you only need to do the first part of your regimen (injecting epitestosterone) or some of the other ways to normalize your ratios before a test.
People are beating the olympic style drug testing every single day... beating the commissions testing is cake.
there is no solution to this problem... you improve testing all you do is make it more expensive which means ped's will only be available to the top earners which means the sport will become even less of a fair playing field.
zuffa is gonna institute it's own testing to make sure these dimwits can actually pass the commission tests before they invest time, money and energy promoting them.
This. I doubt it would be possible to accurately predict what dosages you would need to have a legal ratio at the time of the test. A pharmokinetic nightmare.
No. You would know how much epitest to take and what day to inject based on how much test you were taking and what day you injected it. It's simple math.
goku, what I'm suggesting would beat the test Lamont failed.
I agree, but associating this post with yourself if you do ever become a seasoned pro may come back to haunt you...that was my only point.
You obviously don't know who I am, bro...
That's never going to happen, LOL (and even if I did, I'd be happy to test positive just so I could go to the hearing and use it as a soap box)
They dont do a carbon isotope test to check if you have synthetic testosterone in your system... as long as you are within the allowable range... 4:1 (6;1 in nevada) then you are fine.
Which means you only need to do the first part of your regimen (injecting epitestosterone) or some of the other ways to normalize your ratios before a test.
Yes, but if they did a random test on a day when you hadn't done the balancing epitest shot yet, THEN the second method would save you on the "b" sample, making the dual method infallible.
I bet if you take both at the same time you would have a massive boner 24/7 .
Your balls would be awesome looking too.
I know, right?
They don't just test for the t/e ratio, that's why you see dudes getting popped for stanozolol and other forms of steroids.
This thread is only about testing for testosterone, not other anabolic steroids.