So if terrorism is due to lack of jobs...

Don't try to use logic in politics.

amadeus -
SonicDoom -
amadeus - So why aren't our poor lining up to blow themselves up in the streets if it had so much merit? Phone Post 3.0

False equivalence.

Besides, nobody is saying that poverty is the sole cause of terrorism.
Fine, but there are poor people in every corner of every country the world over. But there is only one common factor that those loping heads off, mutilating women, and blowing innocents up... Phone Post 3.0
You're not saying that Muslim ideology is a motivator of terrorism are you? Phone Post 3.0

I don't think it's particularly controversial to say that being economically impoverished and having no way to effect social or political change will make someone more susceptible to extremist ideologies.

You will occasionally get guys like Bin Laden who are wealthy mastermind types, but they're not the foot soldiers, they don't make up the rank and file.

It's the same reason why poor kids in the hood form gangs and shoot the shit out of each other so much more frequently than kids from middle-class families. When you have little to lose, life becomes cheap.

disbeliever - 
Ari2 - 
disbeliever - The "American Dream" is not some myth. It's never been about being rich, or being a millionaire which people seem to think it is these days.

It's about doing well, house, white fence, a few kids etc.

its about social mobility. something we don't see a lot of in this country.

Really?

The "American Dream" wasn't about doing well in general and having material goods per se.

It was about having a chance for a better life as compared to what you currently have, especially if you're immigrating or coming from a place where things weren't good, e.g., old world Europe, a current 3rd world country, or an Eastern Bloc country during the Cold War.

It was about opportunity and the chance at improving your life, and the life of your kids. It was about having options in life, not necessarily financial. Things like free speech, freedom of religion, sexual freedom, etc.

Essentially, the "American Dream" was "hope" and "change".

That being the case, it would be naive to think that opportunities in America are distributed in an equitable fashion. But that's life, and that's why it was called a "dream" in the first place.

"That being the case, it would be naive to think that opportunities in America are distributed in an equitable fashion. But that's life, and that's why it was called a "dream" in the first place"/

With all due respect, when and where has opportunity ever been "distributed" and/or "distributed evenly"? Which countries currently "distribute oportunities equally", what are those countries populations? What is is the racial distibution of those countries (diversity)? What are those countries Gross Domestic Product? What are the immigration laws of those countries? (If the immigration laws are wide open, then why is there not mass immigration there?, if the immigration laws are strict, why would such a benevolent country have strict immigration laws?)

If I were to guess, any country offered as an example of "equally distributed opportunities" would have a small population, strict immigration, non-diverse population, highly specialized economy. Basically such a country would be none of those things which make America great.

There is a phrase "seizing the opportunity". A prudent person works and prepares themselves to find opportunities and take a chance on them. Immigrants used to leave their native country, taking a chance to work hard and find and create their own opportunities. If such opportunities existed in their native country, they would not have left.

Nobody distributes opportinities, and if they did, then the distributors of the opportunies (following human nature) would ensure that their friends, donors, debtees, would get first choice of those opportunities, but and the remainder would be rationed (trickle down) to the people, who in the view of those who distribute the opportunities, have no ability to do things for themselves.

It's very simple, the quran condones it, and America's foreign policy gives them an enemy to practice it on. Phone Post 3.0

amadeus - The White House is currently in the midst of putting forth the idea that the reason Muslims become terrorists is because they have no jobs... Now I don't know if they really believe this or not but it begs the question, if it is due to lack of jobs why aren't their billions of more terrorists!? Why aren't your everyday carjackers and home invasion artists blowing themselves up in crowded malls and shit!? And if it's due to poverty, why are some of the highest ranking members of these terrorist organization coming from well conected and affluent families!?

Maybe I'm just crazy, but I don't think it's due to lack of jobs...

As others have said, it isn't that joblessness creates terrorism. There will always be extremist groups. But in a functioning society, most people are too invested in their own lives to dedicate themselves to some destructive cause. But you take away jobs, security, a feeling of self worth, etc., you now have a larger population with nothing to lose and who are easy target for extremist groups to recruit.

The analogy of gangs is very appropriate.

You will not ever eliminate terrorism, but you can create an environment where they do not have general support and therefore can't follow through on their intentions.

Improper usage of "begs the question."

BarkLikeADog - Improper usage of "begs the question."

You are correct, but I think it is one of those phrases that has so completely lost it's original meaning (outside of academic settings) that we will just have to accept it's new definition.

I recently looked into the proper meaning and realized that I have never heard it used correctly until very recently in a philosophy book.

Ari2 - 
amadeus - So why aren't our poor lining up to blow themselves up in the streets if it had so much merit? Phone Post 3.0

you're not suggesting that he suggested it was a 1 to 1 equation are you?

Ari do you ever do anything on here but argue for the liberal agenda?

SonicDoom - The WH isn't doing that at all. Nor was the State Dept spokeswoman saying that. She was just saying that the strategy to defeat jihadi groups should include addressing the root causes of terrorism. One of which, she argued, is joblessness/poverty. One. Not the sole cause.

This isn't the first time that that argument has been made. There are studies at least as early as the mid-80s that do it. And it won't be the last time either.

the root cause of terrorism is salafism. It's very difficult for the US to do anything about that short of utterly destroying these countries like we did Japan and Germany.

It is up to the Muslims to change or they can keep being violent until a WWII type of conflict happens

IwonAllFiveRounds209What - 
Hired Gun - It's not about economics. Bin Laden was worth a shit ton as was Khalid Sheikh Mohammed you might be able to argue some of the younger terrorists are poor which is helping to buy into the philosophy but not the shot callers.
The shot callers aren't blowing themselves up either.

Like most shot callers, they're chicken hawks. Phone Post 3.0


This.



Watch the movie "syriana" for a good description of how poverty can open the door to terrorism.  I'm not sure if that's actually the cause, but the film has a good sub-plot that shows this.

poor kids from ecuador aren't ethnically cleansing each other and launching suicide bombers

the poverty argument is ridiculous

It's a problem within Islamic culture and we need to back the good guys in it like the kurds and tell the shitheads vomiting wahabbism at the rest of the world like Saudi arabia they need to to knock it off or their will be consequences.


Timbo Slice - 
IwonAllFiveRounds209What - 
Hired Gun - It's not about economics. Bin Laden was worth a shit ton as was Khalid Sheikh Mohammed you might be able to argue some of the younger terrorists are poor which is helping to buy into the philosophy but not the shot callers.
The shot callers aren't blowing themselves up either.

Like most shot callers, they're chicken hawks. Phone Post 3.0


This.



Watch the movie "syriana" for a good description of how poverty can open the door to terrorism.  I'm not sure if that's actually the cause, but the film has a good sub-plot that shows this.


incorrect

they may not be blowing themselves up per se but they're exposing themselves to danger nearly as much as suicide bombers.

Half of ISIS's top leadership was killed in Kobane because they were fighting on the front lines

Actually the president is correct.

It's very common for men who lose jobs to stay at home on the couch wrapped in blankets and grow a beard.

These are the first stages.

 

 

 

notsobigmike -
amadeus - 
SonicDoom -
amadeus - So why aren't our poor lining up to blow themselves up in the streets if it had so much merit? Phone Post 3.0

False equivalence.

Besides, nobody is saying that poverty is the sole cause of terrorism.
Fine, but there are poor people in every corner of every country the world over. But there is only one common factor that those loping heads off, mutilating women, and blowing innocents up... Phone Post 3.0

Actually, that's not true.

Look at Africa - extreme poverty and extreme violence. Look at the cartels in Mexico and Central/South America.

When you have an entire population with nothing to lose and little reason to hope for more, it's much easier to recruit them into extremism.

Look at it practically - no matter where you are in the world, most people just want to put in their 9-5 and go home to their family and watch TV. People who have stable, satisfying lives don't riot in the streets or join armed insurgencies even if they have religious or political agendas to push.

There's a reason the most violent countries tend to be the shitholes of the world.
Why are the shitholes shitholes? Any common denominators other than not being white countries? Phone Post 3.0

They are " terrorists" because they believe what a book tells them, much like a ton of people in America believes what a book tells them except Christians arnt killing people like that anymore Phone Post 3.0

gregbrady - 
SonicDoom - The WH isn't doing that at all. Nor was the State Dept spokeswoman saying that. She was just saying that the strategy to defeat jihadi groups should include addressing the root causes of terrorism. One of which, she argued, is joblessness/poverty. One. Not the sole cause.

This isn't the first time that that argument has been made. There are studies at least as early as the mid-80s that do it. And it won't be the last time either.

the root cause of terrorism is salafism. It's very difficult for the US to do anything about that short of utterly destroying these countries like we did Japan and Germany.

It is up to the Muslims to change or they can keep being violent until a WWII type of conflict happens

The root cause is not Salafism. The IRA, Sendero Luminoso, LTTE, and FARC are all terrorist groups. Salafists don't even have a monopoly on Islamic terrorism. Hezbollah, Hamas, al-Aqsa Martyr's Brigade, and Moro Islamic Liberation are all Islamic terror groups that aren't Salafist.

Obviously there are plenty of Salafist terror groups but "Because Salafism" doesn't work as an explanation any better than "Because Islam". And it's worse than "Because poverty".