My dad wants some rubber bullets for his 12 ga shotgun. I have a place to get them, but they are pricey. Does anyone have any other sources for them?
Rubber bullets are below the demand threshold to the point where they're really expensive because nobody wants them.
yeah, i know, but dad has a problem because his business is in a high crime area. alot of the crime is committed by really young kids. one of his delivery vehicles was stolen by a five year old, with his seven year old brother helping him.
So dad has a problem pulling the trigger when he has a break in or confrontation late at night, because he doesn't want to kill a 14 year old or something. So he wants rubber bullets, or those bean bag things, so that they have a better chance of not dying if he has to pop one of them.
I'm looking at $25 for a five pack right now. If I can't find something better I guess I'll just have to spend the money.
Be warned that rubber rounds and most of the available beanbag rounds are still lethal under a certain range. I would suggest you express this to your Dad also. Hey... why no t do like in the old days and load up some shells with rock salt?
yeah, Dad knows that they are still lethal. i think he just wants to ease his conscience a little, plus it makes it less likely that he would be prosecuted if the criminal in question does die.
Tell him he'll shoot his eye out.
Salt shot = OUCH x 10
Fuck that. If it's to the point where I'm pulling a weapon, I'm shooting to kill....not to wound, not to scare.
Here's a great quote from Ayoob:
"If you aren't justified in killing a man, you aren't justified in wounding him, either. Never "shoot to wound." I once again direct you to read Ayoob's 'In the Gravest Extreme' and learn the truth."
You might want to buy a copy of that for the old man and remind him that there is a good chance that the person he shoots may be armed as well. And people have died from birdshot and rubber bullets. It IS a hard thing to deal with, but if you can't deal with killing a man, you shouldn't own a firearm. Sounds harsh, but it's a harsh reality.
toki, i understand what you're saying, but I am nticipating a confrontation between my father, a middle aged businessman in poor health, and an intruder anywhere from 5-45 who may be breaking in as a prank, or trying to steal something to buy drugs. If dad has to shoot, he will be engaging them at a range of 30 feet or less. He may or may not be able to clearly see the target at the time he fires.
So all I was saying is that in the event that he creams an 8 year old, the rubber bullets would reduce the likelyhood of him going to jail for it. If he shoots anyone, child or adult at that range, it will most likely kill them.
He will have regular buckshot in the shotgun anyway. Only the first one or two shells would be the rubber bullets.
exactly, but the cops and lawyers look at it differently if you kill a kid with a less lethal munition. It demonstrates your intention to defend yourself with the least force possible.
are air tasers legal?
they are, but they are tightly regulated, and expensive. Plus, I think they would kill a child just as easily as rubber bullets would.
"Plus, I think they would kill a child just as easily as rubber bullets would. "
Uh, no. Children are not magically vulnerable to electricity; but they are MUCH more vulnerable to rubber bullets than adults, on account of their size.
Someone breaks into your house, they are doing it for a reason... therefore they just signed a waiver at the front door (or window). The best advise I have heard from a police officer was, "If your going to shoot, make sure you kill them... if you don't, there is always a chance that he/she will sue you". Of course I live in Georgia so I think the gun laws are looked at a little differently than in other places.
I wasn't suggesting that they were "magically" more vulnerable to electricity, but it makes sense that the same amount of charge would have a bigger effect on a 70lb child than a 250lb man. Explain why it wouldn't, if you don't mind.
BTW, it is a fact that the invisible fence products for dogs tha use a shocking collar can be put on large dogs, but cannot be put on small dogs, because it will kill them. I have heard that from vets and pet industry salesmen too.
Because a taser charge is very low amperage and works entirely by stimulating the nervous and skeletomuscular systems. The "amount" of charge -- the amps -- is so negligible as to make almost no difference with regards to the mass of the target. Unlike a shock collar, the taser's purpose is not to cause pain (which would be useless) but to stimulate the nervous system, and secondarily the muscles themselves, into a state of "paralysis" caused by uncontrollable convulsive muscle contractions.
A shock collar has to work via an entirely different mechanism; it needs to cause intense pain WITHOUT affecting the neuromuscular system. Wouldn't be a very effective product if it caused the dog to freeze up and fall over outside the collar range. Hence a much higher amperage and a voltage/waveform that won't directly affect the nervous system.
What you want is ring aerofoil rounds (non-lethal from the muzzel out) or you can load your own less than lethal rounds (I find that low density cork works well for this but only at very close range, otherwise they will just laugh and keep coming).
IMO, just kill the fucker.
Police and Feds use #1 Buck. That also happens to be the same shells I have loaded...
If your scared to shoot someone, don't pull the gun out! Pull a bat out and nail the bastard in the knees. Of course then what happens if he's cocked and read to rock??? You better load that shotty with some #1 buck and nail his ass in the chest.
ckil - I don't know about departments in your area, but around here we all use Federal reduced recoil 00 buck in our shotguns.
I appreciate the "shoot to kill" argument, but all I was really looking for was a cheaper source for the non lethal rounds.